As an agnostic

Some choose to use the wrong that has been done in the name of faith to mock / attack our faith

I choose to think of the good done by so many millions in the world because of their love of Christ , just two as an example - William Wilberforce , William Booth, just two of many millions

The problem with the original statement is that a lot of people who do believe in god only believe in their version of him and therefore that the rest of us are going to hell in a handcart. It's been the cause of many a conflict and still is today.It's also caused the torture, mistreatment and death of people who happened to believe something even slightly different to those in power, or who didn't conform to their narrow beliefs. The idea that suffering in this life saves you in the next is still prevelant in some faiths.
I suppose if you believe they will get their come-uppance/
reward in the next life it's OK but, if this is all there is, religion has screwed things up for a lot of people.

Well Jalima1108, if you don’t like it you can always ..........

Undoubtably there is a lot of goodwill on GN.
There certainly is, mumofmadboys, and in fact, this thread did start off in a very reasonable manner, even if opinions differed.

Doodle
I can follow it up in any way I choose and, far from trying to shock, I am simply stating my view as others state theirs.
If my view shocks other people, that is not my problem.
The whole religious thing is, IMO, a fairy story, no matter who wrote what, when or where.
Those who believe in any religion (and sceptics and athiests too) can read that, according to 'the word', JC followed the teachings of the Torah 90% of the time, making him (in believers eyes) a true Jew. That puts all other religions out of the park and my basis for non-belief is partly based on the hatred of and dismissal of many religions by other religions, all clamouring for the right to be the one true religion.
It's pure poppycock.
I acknowledge that everyone has the right to believe what they like and they can call my view poppycock till the cows come home. You don't respect my view any more than I do yours. I do however, respect (or acknowledge) your right to think differently.

I hope that most of us are not caught up in a tide of Christmas sentimentality and that we are true to ourselves all year round

Undoubtably there is a lot of goodwill on GN.

I wonder how this thread will develop after the season of goodwill ( if there is such a thing on Gransnet ) ends

I agree with the OP & the post.

I have known a wide range of vicars, pastors and preachers in my time, professionally and personally. I find them as varied as any other group. It is the motivation to take up the role that matters! Some I have met are really wonderful people who work selflessly to do the best they can for their community. Others have been more self serving or inward looking and occasionally I have met people leading a faith group who are unpleasant, selfish and very ungodly!

In reply to Gabriella, there is quite a bit of historical evidence for the life of Jesus that was not written by his followers. We are free to ignore him if we choose, because it's true that following him makes certain demands on us that most today would rather reject, but it's overstating the case to say he is a myth.

Reminds me when I drove to London to hear Donald Soper at speakers corner in Hyde Park, crowds of people there to hear him , a couple of hecklers thought themselves clever,made fools of themselves

Good post doodle

Gabriella is trying to shock and upset, been done before by others, ‘believing in Christ is the same as believing in the tooth fairy’, that poster wanted to hog the thread.

Let’s not feed the need

Gabriella you are of course entitled to your opinions and can voice them in any way you choose but you cannot then follow that up by saying “but I respect your right to believe whatever takes your fancy”. I am sure you are aware there is no respect shown in your posts for anyone who does not think the same way as you.

...and please don't hold back from criticising me as much or as often as you wish
Ok, thanks!

The convent in this town was sold after the boarding school closed, it is now a care home. When I worked there there were twelve nuns. Now there are two, one is in the care home and the other lives alone in a part of the building the mother house kept so the one nun in the care home has one sister to be near her , to sit with her, pray with her, see to her needs. She must miss the fellowship, the sisters she lived with for many years. She is very much loved here.

...and please don't hold back from criticising me as much or as often as you wish. It makes no impression on me. I value myself too much to let others get under my skin...like a rhino

Actually Jalima1108, there is a family living in that house and they've been there for almost 6 years. They do pay rent to me and they were not homeless. I downsized, as many do.
It was part of my divorce settlement. Is everyone expected to house the homeless? I do other things for society, volunteering etc and being a blood donor for 40 years, to name but two.
You believe what you like and I have my views. Each valid to the person holding them.
Here ended the last lesson.

No one is being rude about people who are atheists or agnostics. We all have free choice to believe what we wish to. Respect for others views is vital

Good grief...derogatory?
Hahaha, they're only words. No kindness for non-believers then...eh?
I'm not allowed to be sensitive to talk of people's religious beliefs?
What about equality? Discrimination?
My views are more relevant as they are factual and that is indisputable.

That can have some pretty horrible consequences, momb

I know of a situation where a farm was sold at way below market price because one of the family members who owned it had become a monk. All his wealth was signed over to the monastery. During a recession the board members considered selling up but wanted to make the decision that if the asked for price wasn't reached it would be taken off the market. At the first whiff of money the church demanded a quick sale and blocked any alternatives.

Not a thought for the farm workers who lived in tied houses and lost their homes and their livelihoods.

Crossed posts

...and does that stand for all sectors of society...or just the 'holy' sector?

Gabriella you really are not being polite or tactful. A number of folk on this thread are believers but you persist in using derogatory language talking of fairy stories and such like.Please show some sensitivity and kindness.

I think it is the fact that your post tends to belittle the views of others, Gabriella. Perhaps that is not your intention as I'm sure you would not want other posters to criticise your lifestyle which you have described so often on here.
what difference are they making to the world? Absolutely none. Not one iota.
That is in your opinion, of course.
I presume you made a difference by opening your six bedroomed, five bathroomed home to the homeless. How grateful they must be.