Jews

Exactly Pantglas, how can it be forgotten

The admins will be watching this thread for signs of anti-semitism.
However, you can't deny the facts of history. According to the Bible, when Moses brought the Children of Israel to the promised land, they didn't simply move in and settle in the country. They destroyed the cities and massacred the inhabitants.
Just as we have every reason to hate the Romans for destroying our culture 2,000 years ago,( and this was not a country of barbaric savages) so the ancient inhabitants of Canaan and their descendants have every reason to hate the Israelites.

Not justifying hatred, just explaining it.

The Romans were quite clever though RosieLeah, they let the indigenous people keep aspects of their religion and culture and merged some of their own Gods with those of the country they were occupying. On balance 2000 years later, they left behind a fantastic legacy, they were just so advanced. The tribes of the time wouldn't agree of course as there were regular insurrections. Although it seems by 400 AD the Romans had managed to ingratiate themselves sufficiently with all that they brought, the population of our Isles had become Romano Britons and possibly wanted them to stay.

I understand that RosieLeah but if that was the case almost every country/culture would hate the invaders forever and a day, which doesn’t seem to happen in the way it has with the Jewish people. The seem to be scapegoats for all and sundry.

Catholicism has a lot to answer for as to the persecution of the Jews, I speak as someone who was raised in that religion. It shocked me to the core when I stumbled upon some books about The Spanish Inquisition as a teenager.

The Last Kabbalist of Lisbon by Richard Zimmler is a great novel about Portugese Jews and the Catholic Church. Well for reading!

I agree with your last post Pantglas1

No Septima it wasn't the Christians, it was the Catholic Church. Not that they take this line now.

Very few non-conformist Christians have ever blamed the Jews. On the contrary, I learned in Sunday School that it was the Romans - who also persecuted the Jews.

And, according to my Jewish friends, they were being persecuted long before that.

I cannot answer the original question; it is one that has puzzled and distressed me for decades, as every Jewish friend I have ever had has been warm and welcoming and endlessly hospitable.

I don't understand how you could hate people for some their forefathers did in Moses' time! Why not accept that Jewish people are just the same as the rest of us? Never mind history.For all I know I might have Viking blood, and they roasted little babies.

minxie do you actually know about Google? Using it is an an excellent way of researching any history you want to know about.

something

Most people who invaded other countries in ancient times slaughtered the existing population and devastated their lands so I don't think the Jews of that time were unique in that respect. Indeed, from what I can see we are dab hands at it even today, and with superior weapons. The Jews do seem to be forever blamed for it while we have moved on with other groups. We have to wonder why. I see that Futurelearn, a free course site, has a short course on antisemitism. Perhaps signing up for it would help people understand why the Jews seem to be the group scapegoated just for being Jews.

As a teenager one of my closest friends was a Jewish girl. Our friendship was a platonic one but as I say very close. One day my grandmother (Irish Catholic) asked me when I was going to get a proper girl. I asked what she meant, “you know full well” she said, to which my response was she, my friend, had all the same bits any other girl has. My grandmother never raised the subject again.

Christian's like me need to remember that Christ was a Jew, not a Christian. Equally Muslims should remember that Abraham was also a Jew and is central to their faith. If both groups spent more attention to their faiths the world would be a better place.

Allegedly One is only a Christian IF you believe in God & that God sent Jesus to be crucified in order to rise again so that we would know of God’ s love for us , so much so that he was prepared to sacrifice & allow his son Jesus to suffer to prove it.
Somehow one can’t help thinking there might have been an alternative way !

The Israeli/Palestinian problems only explain middle eastern antipathy to the Jewish people.

It doesnt explain the growing antisemitism in Eastern and Western Europe, although Austria and Eastern Europe remained anti-semitic, even after WW2. I think it is the long connection between Jews and finance for the reasons given by Trisher.

It is all part of the growing tendency of people to believe in conspiracy theories: that George Bush engineered 9/11, that Hilary Clinton ran a paedophile ring from a Washington pizza parlour, that the world is controlled by a mysterious group called the illuminati. that shadowy Jewish bankers manipulate money markets to their advantage and other peoples diadvantage - all conspiracy theories with no basis in fact, but very attractive if they reflect your view of the of the world - that Democrats are vile, Republicans nasty, you feel out of control of events or you feel cheated financially, blame some shadowy organisation associated with a group you find easy to hate.

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Part of the hostility is just bullying of people who identify as “different”, part is the Holocaust Memorial Foundation continually promoting their cause, part because of the Palestine issue. To my knowledge we don’t have a visible Jewish community close to where I live, in London there is and there is always going to be tension, as there is with other minorities.

Daisymae, the accusation that the Jewish people control the money and that's what led to the holocaust is something that needs to be challenged on every level. I've heard people say that 9/11 was the work of the Jewish people because they wanted to create chaos and cause the world to turn against Arab nations. That's as daft as saying the Jews control the money. The reason Jewish people became involved in money lending is partly because Christians frowned on this (Jesus in the temple overturning the tables) and also because Jews weren't allowed to own property. This led to them doing work that meant they could carry their tools with them, money, tailoring etc.

The Crusading Christians blamed the Jews for the death of Christ. From the 12th century there are records of anti semitism, of Jewish people being restricted in the kind of work they were permitted to do. In the 18th and 19th centuries in many parts of Europe, they lived in ghettos, were restricted to certain kinds of work and weren't allowed to own property. Pogroms in Eastern Europe led to many Jewish people leaving for the USA or the UK.
The Israeli Palestinian problems can't be denied or diminished but, they don't explain the long history of anti semitism. Louise Ellman has resigned from the Labour Party but that's for another thread.

Daisymae I am incredulous that you could write that statement without commenting on it. Can we assume that because this person is old enough to remember pre-war Germany you are happy to accept this comment as fact?

Just a reading of the many well-informed posts on this thread - and this thread has been remarkable for the quality of its posts - would have told you that a statement like that you made is inaccurate.

Just because someone lived in pre-war Germany does not mean that their understanding of the situation can be accepted as accurate. Firstly, they would only have been children at the time and by the 1930s education and the media were all controlled by the Nazis so the only message they would have received about Jewish people would have been the Nazi message - that all Germany's problem were caused by Jewish financiers and conspiracies and that therefore they were all traitors to their country and should be 'removed'.

Sadly, your post has seriously undermined my previous respect for you and your opinions.

Daisymae Wed 16-Oct-19 22:56:29
I asked someone who was in pre war Germany this question. I was told it because they controlled all the money

Simplistic nonsense Daisymae for the reasons others have given above. Why not do some reading and find out for yourself
You cannot blindly believe second or even third hand unsubstantiated opinion- this person who must have been a child may well have just been repeating prejudice they picked up from the adults around them in a period when Nazi propaganda dominated German society. That is how prejudices are perpetuated and spread.
Chinese whispers?

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Ignorance.

I don't like this thread. Don't understand why is was resurrected. I could understand it if it was to discuss the brave choice of the lady MP who resigned from the Labour Party because of the institutionalised antsemeticism.

because they controlled all the money.

A bit of info that people on here may not be aware of...
If you see someone abusing another person on the street or elsewhere - because of their religion, race, disability e.t.c it is possible to report the same to the police as a hate crime.

Especially if you have the car reg number etc. Time. Description of what them and what they said.

It may be really important for the person who is suffering in this way.

Hope this might be helpful