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Does God exist? I'd like to be clear in my mind

(285 Posts)
HettyMaud Sun 29-Sept-19 22:39:34

I'm definitely not a Christian though no doubt a man did exist who perhaps was able to do things that could not be well explained. If God exists then what made God? I do feel in complete awe when I look at nature and the more I study it the more amazing it is. How can it all have come about? Yet there is so much suffering in the world. Why? I love going to churches and yet sometimes feel I'm singing and speaking words which I don't really believe and yet I enjoy it and feel close to God. Most people I'm close to are atheists but I'm not sure what I am. I'm so confused.

Gnostic Mon 07-Oct-19 17:22:31

Tweedle

"We were given free will and choose to misuse it."

Your own bible says that you do not have a free will to think as you want due to god hardening, or not, our hearts.

Why does god harden hearts against his own wish to be believed to be god?

In 2 Corinthians 3;14 - 15 God hardens Jewish hearts against their believing in Jesus as their messiah.

John 12;39-40 says about the same. The same applies to Romans 11;25, 2 Corinthians 4;3-4,

Why are you disagreeing with the scriptures?

Regards
DL

Greenfinch Mon 07-Oct-19 17:28:52

Thanks Gnostic.I shall read through your words carefully and endeavour to understand them.

Luckygirl Mon 07-Oct-19 18:25:55

It is worth remembering that all religious texts are written by fallible human beings reflecting the culture and prejudices of their own times; and sometimes written long after the events. Certainly not the words of any god one might postulate.

I say again - all that matters is kindness. Any god worth their salt could ask no more. There is nothing to stop anyone getting on and being kind rather than embroiling themselves in the inevitable controversies about religious doctrines. Whether there is a god or gods matters not.

Shinamae Mon 07-Oct-19 18:36:33

Mother nature is my “God”and a powerful thunderstorm is very spiritual to me ......

grannylyn65 Mon 07-Oct-19 18:37:41

Wouldn’t we all

Lazigirl Mon 07-Oct-19 19:24:30

I agree about the importance of kindness, and I would also add compassion. I think that it's how we behave towards each other counts most.

Not that I am perfect by any means, but as I believe that this life is the only one we have then I think I should try and live it as well as I am able.

If anyone else shares the idea that this universe is a natural phenomenon with no supernatural side have a look at humanism.org.uk.

Alexa Mon 07-Oct-19 19:32:27

I agree with Gnostic,if indeed Gnostic means we make god as we go along living and seeking truth, goodness, and beauty.

Doodle Mon 07-Oct-19 20:25:51

Lots of advice and others thoughts about Christianity and God on the internet. Worth looking at if you have questions.

Blondiescot Mon 07-Oct-19 20:34:53

I am absolutely clear in my mind and the answer is a resounding NO!

paddyann Mon 07-Oct-19 22:10:53

Tweedle how exactly does that free will thing work? Did my friends 12 year old decide to have cancer ? Did my other friends 6 year old decide to die from leukeamia ? Your god isn't my kind of guy .If thats the kind of free choice you're advocating .Or were these children eveil and deserved to suffer?
My wonderful daughter who has always lived a good life and has a heart of gold is confined to bed in horrendous pain most of the time and I can assure you thats not her choice .If there IS a god he should be heartily ashamed of himself for the mess and suffering the world contends with.

Anniebach Mon 07-Oct-19 22:18:43

Free will means choice.

jura2 Mon 07-Oct-19 22:20:58

meaning?

Anniebach Mon 07-Oct-19 22:24:37

Meaning we choose to do good or bad.

Doodle Mon 07-Oct-19 23:13:29

paddyann firstly may I say I am so sorry for your daughter and the pain she is going through. But why blame a God you don’t believe in for the troubles of the world. If God doesn’t exist he can’t be the cause of all this grief and suffering.
If he does exist and is what the bible and Jesus say he is then God is love. He does not bring this trouble to us he is with us in our pain and suffering. This is not easy to believe but that is what faith is all about.

gmarie Mon 07-Oct-19 23:14:16

Sorry this is so long. I've been thinking over these things a lot lately.

I've had a life-long struggle with this question, too, HettyMaud. I would lay in bed many nights at a very young age thinking about about death and the endless universe and work myself into a panic. My parents were atheist and I envied those who grew up with religious faith. Very early on, however, friends up the street told me that my parents would go to hell for not believing or being baptized which made no sense at all to me. My mom and dad were, in my mind, very good people. That only made me more confused and gave me another thing to worry about late at night.

In my teens, I tried to make sense of all the suffering I saw in the world. I read up on religion and philosophy - (CS Lewis, Alan Watts' The Book, Viktor Frankl's Man's Search for Meaning, etc.), and went to different church services with many friends. I finally realized that I couldn't attach myself to any church that thought their beliefs were "right" and everyone else's were "wrong". Religious dogma seemed very restrictive and cruel to me. Re/ the Bible, I couldn't understand how people could accept each word as the truth when it conflicted itself in so many place and was dependent on hearsay, alterations by the church, translation errors, historical differences in how words were defined, and changes over time as BradfordLass refers to in her 10/1 post.

I was living away from my parents for the first time when I saw the Challenger blow up live on TV. I was a teacher, at home with my first son, and was devastated by the tragedy and alone in a new place. I turned again to reading - When Bad Things Happen To Good People" and books by Raymond Moody, Ken Ring, Michael Sabom about NDEs (Near Death Experiences). Re/ the latter, I loved that so many people came back from these experiences feeling some of the things that had always felt true to me: less attachment to dogma, a belief in the universality of all religions, less interest in material things, more tolerance and caring for others, and so on. Most also lost their fear of death! I'd found something like religion that I could hold on to. Hetty Maud, given what you said in your reply to all of the comments, I thought you might be interested in the above. Or not. flowers flowers

I've since read dozens books on those types of topics and experiences, all of which needed to be based on research and/or verified anecdotes. I worked as a hospice volunteer, cared for my grandma and mom when they were terminally ill and had some interesting experiences during those times.

I can currently boil my beliefs down to only two things - I feel we are more than our physical bodies and that life involves loving and being kind and connected to others. I still find myself in the "middle" of any discussion, not really fitting in with my atheist family, religious friends, or those who believe in crystals and such. I used to joke that I keep an open mind but not so open that anything could fall into it smile. I don't care what people believe in if it brings them comfort, as long as it isn't hurtful to others. Who are we to claim any ultimate knowledge?

It's all a mystery, one that has recently preoccupied me, again, since my dad died a few weeks ago. He was my hero and the person I relied on most in life and I miss him so, so much. I'd love to think that he's not just gone and ashes in a box. I want to believe that he is still with me and that I will see him and Mom again someday but who knows... sad

gillybob Mon 07-Oct-19 23:17:05

I agree with you paddyann . I used to have this very same “argument” with my late grandma who was very religious . She didn’t really have an answer.

Gnostic Mon 07-Oct-19 23:35:49

Greenfinch

Let me know if it is poorly written.
I like to be understood.

Regards
DL

Gnostic Mon 07-Oct-19 23:41:53

Luckygirl

``all that matters is kindness.`

If you return kindness for evil, are you not rewarding evil?

If you have two children and reward the evil child just as much as the good child, what do you think your good child will think of his good deeds as compared to your evil childs evil deeds?

I think your good child will resent not being treated any better than you evil child.

Even Jesus taught to turn the other cheek, which is a Jewish insult.

Rewarding evil just creates more evil.

Regards
DL

Gnostic Mon 07-Oct-19 23:49:42

Alexa

I agree with Gnostic,if indeed Gnostic means we make god as we go along living and seeking truth, goodness, and beauty.

Looks like we might be on the same mental page.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJ1PDxeUynA

All that we know of all the gods come from humans, some say enlightened humans, but if you look ate the vile mainstream homophobic and misogynous religions, you might wonder if Satan was doing the enlightenment for Christianity and Islam.

Regards
DL

Alexa Tue 08-Oct-19 00:27:48

God cannot be all- powerful AND make Paddyann's daughter suffer! I do hope she finds some medication to make her confortable.

Tweedle24 Tue 08-Oct-19 11:23:58

Gnostic The verses you quote talk about Jews not believing in Jesus, not denying that God exists.

Fennel Tue 08-Oct-19 11:52:36

Jews do believe that Jesus existed - he seems to have been a Jewish Rabbi. But wasn't the Messiah.
I find the concept of the Messiah difficult to accept.

Lazigirl Tue 08-Oct-19 11:58:12

Gnostic I wonder what you mean by the word "evil"? Do you think children can be inherently evil?

I do believe in treating people with kindness whenever possible, and think that if one is treated badly to return the treatment does nothing to resolve the situation, merely exacerbates it and can cause bitterness all round.

I think humans have evolved to learn to be altruistic in order to live in social groups.

Alexa Tue 08-Oct-19 12:17:06

One way of thinking is all evil is natural evil.
Evil is subjective but nevertheless we all recognise evil as a universal quality.
If we want to serve god we try to reduce evil whenever we can.
Obviously there is going to be fighting, some of it political, going on about social evils and how to make them better than they are.

Each of us is responsible for our own conception of what is evil. It's a cop out to blame god, or fate, for evil. The thing is to get on with making things better.

Alexa Tue 08-Oct-19 12:19:43

Lazigirl:
"I think humans have evolved to learn to be altruistic in order to live in social groups."

So do I but have you suggested that to somebody of the neo-liberal right?