Religeous intolerance

Do we know that the classroom was full of muslim pupils? If so, the teacher concerned was possibly being deliberately provocative. Without knowing all the facts he was quite probably attempting to educate his class on blasphemy as has been reported. Like the teacher in France, who told the muslim pupils they were free to leave the classroom. Ultimately isn’t it down to a muslim whether they view the image or not? During a debate on this same issue after the Hebdo massacre some muslims drew a picture of Anne Frank enjoying a post coital cigarette whilst in bed with Hitler. Many Jews and non Jews found that offensive. However, nobody’s life was in danger. Nobody had to be ordered to gather a mob together to intimidate and bully people into submission. To place this on a par with the JK Rowling incident is stretching it too far. Feelings may have been hurt with JFR’s outrageous assertion that only women menstruate (even though it’s true) but nobody had to go into hiding. Nobody’s life was in danger.

I don’t agree with being deliberately provocative but I don’t believe we should be forced to give up our freedoms to appease those that would seek to change our cultural norms.

There are double standards. What about the average everyday Muslims that want to look after their families go to work and mosque and live law abiding lives. They are told by extremist Muslims who believe in jihad that they are not even Muslims if they will not go to places like Syria and anywhere else to fight the cause in the name of Allah. All of the Muslims do not want to fight and kill.
It seems they will take great offence of course if Mohammed is ridiculed.

Just to add before I have to go as I haven’t had time to read all the posts on here as had to take two long calls whilst trying to post my previous reply. I have just read some post saying something to the effect it’s not acceptable to ridicule others’ religious beliefs. Why are people jumping to the conclusion that this teacher was in anyway attempting to ridicule Islam?

I never thought I say this but I’m with SW on this. I find it really quite depressing how some posters are seeking to blame this teacher.

Ilovecheese I think how secure you feel depends on your experience. In my last year at a Catholic school our teacher told us to hang on tight to our faith as some people would attack or make fun of us because of it. I laughed at the idea until in my first job, after I was quickly promoted, someone said it was because I was Catholic and so was my boss. I was always on the defensive after that even though I didn’t practice the religion.

I had a conversation with my husbands' granddaughters who went to state catholic senior schools, this would have been in the last ten years. At that time they told me their school discussed contraception, abortion and it was obliged to as part of sex education as set out in the national curriculum. These days there is far more wriggle room in the catholic religion, clerics are no doubt very aware they, are part of an institution which has found itself on the wrong side of the argument so many times, I think now there is a bit of a piecemeal approach to what followers adopt. Abortion is forbidden but as far as contraception is concerned the standard get out clause by individual priests from what I understand is they leave it all up to the individual's conscience. The church has to be mindful that in the wake of never ending historical wrongs they no longer have a vice like grip with the younger generation they once had over more compliant and unquestioning followers, particularly in Ireland. I also think as far as blasphemous images relating to the Christian religion per se is concerned, the general consensus and expectations of society is that whilst they might upset some, no one is going to do much about it.

Islam imposes more rigours and strictures, maybe like Catholicism was once. Possibly whilst Islamic schools should also be bound by the curriculum I imagine they will refuse to teach anything that conflicts with their own beliefs. I think that would be the same for Orthodox Jewish schools. As far as all the hoo ha surrounding the cartoons is concerned I think there are more important issues, for example relating to how girl children are treated, not always as equals. I don't expect everyone to share my point of view, I'm just thinking fighting battles on every front isn't going to improve social cohesion and as someone pointed out up thread that just may make Muslims feel they are being unfairly targeted.

I'm probably playing Devil's Advocate, I don't think the teacher was wrong, I think he was foolish. Should he be outed on social media or mob tactics used outside the school to intimidate, absolutely not. Should be grounds for prosecution.

This was from the link I posted:

Because Religious Studies is a rigorous and demanding academic discipline in its own right. It engenders critical thinking and rigour in the search for truths in uncertain fields. It encourages philosophical thought, decision making skills, collaboration and independent working skills and the search for compromise and conflict resolutions that work. It creates opportunities for young people to develop their skills of dialogue, interpretation and analysis in a coherent context. All these are vital skills in a modern workforce where communication, collaboration and cooperation are core skills

If it was very offensive it shouldn't have been shown but we don't know if the teacher produced the cartoon so that people would engage in discussion surrounding its offensiveness, why is it offensive and so on and so forth. Obviously that should have been provoked in a different manner but I don't know about all of you, I have always encouraged my children to question what they are being told and explore truths within information and challenge themselves to look deeper than what is given as I think it is healthy

There is such a thing as being culpably foolish. This teacher is teaching in a school which I would suspect has a lot of muslim pupils, given its location. He cannot have been unaware of the sensitivities.

There are so many ways he could have discussed toleration or blashemy, assuming that is what the class was about without including a cartoon of Mohamed. For example cartoons featuring other religions, with a blank piece of paper for Islam and a discussion on that, why was there no picture of Mohamed, to help both sides understand each other and to see the difference, for example, between the threat of death and exile forced on Christians in some Muslims countries if accused (without evidence) of blasphemy and relatively harmless convention of not portrating Mohamed.

In our ordinary life most of us try to conduct ourselves so that we do not gratuitiously upset other people, particularly if the irritant or particularity is minor and causes no major problems. Surely respecting a religion's wish not to see any deliniation of its prophet, is a small thing, why not respect it?

I actually agree with you Monica but I am also equally horrified he is under police protection. I'm sure we have all made mistakes, some big some small, some personally, some professionally. I find social media is the work of the devil in these scenarios.

Most fair minded people would have been upset by what they see is an insult to their religion but a sincere apology and a reprimand from the head should have been enough.

These people are extremists and have no place in a society that abhors threats of violence.

Here in Belgium R.E. is obligatory in Secondary Schools, but, when you enrol your child you fill in which religion you wish them to study. As long as there are 2 pupils a specialised teacher will be appointed.
My DD studied the Protestant religion and at times it went from 7 pupils to 3.
A friend is a Protestant religion teacher and goes to various schools in his area.
Surely religion classes should not be one size fits all as that is impossible.
Here we have Morale classes for those who do not wish to study religion and that is mainly about behaviour etc.
I would be interested to know how many of the protesters had children at the school and why the protest was allowed when the one for the murdered girl was treated with so much violence.

Thanks JaneJudge for posting the information about the teaching of R.E. In the absence of Muslim schools, many parents elect to send their children to faith, rather than secular schools on the basis pastoral care and behaviour management is more in tune with their expectations.

I’m another who agrees the teacher was unwise/naive/ill informed or any combination but death threats? Police protection, outrageous. He , his family and loved ones must be terrified. The teacher in France was beheaded.

Well said AGAA4. It's reasonable for a formal complaint to be made to the school and just as reasonable for that complaint to be dealt with accordingly.

Necessitating police protection for this teacher is outrageous and those making death threats need to be identified and charged.

There’s a difference between studying a specific religion and religious studies. I don’t know exactly what was being taught but it is being said it was a lesson about freedom of speech and blasphemy. I think an awareness of all major religions is to be encouraged in schools - children should have the right to be informed about other religious beliefs and practices and all the more so if they come from a religious family who believe it’s their way or no way.

This mob want him sacked for goodness sake. Full of righteous indignation. The head should have done the usual ‘I’m sorry if you are upset, I’m now going to look into this and will let you know the outcome. Meanwhile if any parents ( code for not the rent a mob) have any particular concerns please send them to me in writing’

I agree suzie, children have the right to be informed about all religious and non religious beliefs and practices.
For children growing up in faith groups that exclude or denigrate other faiths/or none, that’s especially important.

A voice of reason from a Muslim commentator.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9408385/Batley-cartoon-Pandering-mob-disaster-writes-DR-RAKIB-EHSAN.html

I feel heartily sorry for the teacher. How on earth can he now go about his business without fear ? Thoroughly shocking !

I hope the Head teacher is investigated. He doesn't deserve to stay in post.

An excellent well written article Meryl thank you for providing the link.

I agree eazybee he should have have had the guts to stand up to these people telling them that the matter will be investigated and their demands for the staff member to be dismissed were unacceptable.

I agree with teaching children about the various religions, but it should be possible to do this without bringing in actual examples of blasphemy in visual form. That's like showing 'The Life of Brian' which many Christians find offensive. It's not necessary or appropriate. Explain that most religions dislike being mocked but that due to freedom of speech it is something that often happens, sometimes with serious consequences.

Any of you think that the head teacher suspended this teacher because he thinks he's a dope who doesn't understand the basics of his job? i.e. how to teach religious studies without profoundly upsetting the members of his class?

Any of you think that you don't actually get a say in how children of other parents should be educated when it comes to religion? Distasteful though you might think their indoctrination into a religion is, you don't get to try to change that by saying that all children deserve to be informed about other religions?

Any of you think that when you say "an apology should be enough" that you have no concept of how upset these children are and how offensive this is to their parents? And that you are minimising the impact of this and telling the upset parents that their anger doesn't matter?

Any of you think that the Head Teacher is doing what needs doing and isn't influenced by the mob at his gates at all?

No, didn't think so.

This is why religion has no place in schools.

Some of the protesters have come from other areas. It was ironic that one of them said that the school should respect other cultures.

My thoughts exactly Sago.

Alegrias I have absolutely no idea how you could teach a variety of subjects without bringing religion into it- many works of literature, history ( really ?) , PHSE. And the children were upset ? Really ? Not encouraged by their parents or the men at the gate? When white children shunned black children, they learned it from their parents. Their parents were wrong and schools were the only hope of some progress.

Suzie I am genuinely baffled as to why people think any subject needs religion in it, except religious studies. Seriously, I'm not being argumentative. OK, I understand that if you are teaching Scottish history you have to teach the covenanters, and that requires mention of religion. If you are teaching the Partition of India you have to mention Hinduism and Islam. You can teach The Merchant of Venice and explain how Shakespearean England regarded Jews. But that doesn't require a discussion about the philosophy of the religion, what people think of it and how it affects us today.

Its not the place of a school, or education, or some teacher that a parent has never met, to try to influence a person's belief systems. Don't mention it at all. Stick to fact, not myths.

Again - this is why I stay off the religion boards.....

I understand personally regarding discrimination and I still think there should be an investigation within the school and this shouldn't happen again. I am aghast the teacher and his family is being police protection, how on earth can anyone quantify that?