Religeous intolerance

I think Religious Studies should be studied as well and the moral and community issues surrounding that should still be taught. Isn't this an example of why?

Alegrias1 Any of you think that when you say "an apology should be enough" that you have no concept of how upset these children are and how offensive this is to their parents? And that you are minimising the impact of this and telling the upset parents that their anger doesn't matter?
If something deeply offensive to Christians (or any other religion) were paraded in class do you think we would have the same outcome, demonstrations and death threats? No we wouldn't. Everyone else has to take it on the chin and accept that we have freedom of speech. They would not threaten to kill the person who offended them because most religions teach 'thou shalt not kill!

Islam also teaches against the taking of a life. Is there leave to pick and choose which parts of the Quran Muslims will obey, or are the death threats just sabre rattling?

JaneJudge

I think Religious Studies should be studied as well and the moral and community issues surrounding that should still be taught. Isn't this an example of why?

Yes !

Understanding the role of religion in society historically is essential to understanding society today. Religion and religious beliefs are entrenched in all cultures. Good luck with teaching Merchant of Venice without explaining why the Jews were so hated. And understanding Irish history right up to the present day involves discussing and understanding the differences between the two major religions there and issues of power, hatred and doctrinal differences. You can’t even understand how state education came about without understanding the role of religion. As for apartheid and understanding that evil, you need to know the role of the Dutch Reformed Church. And try explaining about the historical inequality of women without reference to doctrinal issues around contraception, abortion and divorce? Religion and religious beliefs aren’t a little additional add on to understanding society and imo no child’s education is complete without understanding that there’s more to the way the world works than their fundementalist ( of whatever religion) parents want them to know

All those things you have written are true Suzie but none of them set one religions teaching's above another. If a teacher, for the sake or argument, shows a class a cartoon that one specific religion finds inherently offensive, then that teacher is automatically setting one religion's standards above another's by saying we need to look at this, even though you find it blasphemous, because our liberal western values say it's OK.

And I don't believe that any school has any right to undermine what a child's parents have given them as a belief system, however we disagree with it. And if anyone in any school had led me to believe that their belief system was better than mine, that would have been wrong. So it has to work both ways.

I'm afraid that I believe that religious beliefs are not even "a little add on" to understanding society and have no place in education.

Alegrias1. I understand and in many ways support your argument. But - religious beliefs are integral. Are you saying that Muslim children should have their beliefs ignored? What happens at Ramadan where many are fasting. Currently, schools make allowances to accommodate that

I couldn’t disagree more - all religions are not equal. They are not equal in how they treat women, gay people, disabled, people and poc for one thing. But it’s not even as simple as one religion having better standards than another but about how the values of different religions measure upto the values of the society in which children are being brought up. Beliefs about blasphemy for example need to be examined ( as I think this teacher was doing) in the context of freedom of speech and what that means. It also means examining what type of behaviour is acceptable ( never mind legal) if you believe someone has blasphemed your religion - beheading, shooting?

Or even ‘just’ calling for a teacher to be sacked?

I'm an atheist. I believe all religions are equal, at least in one respect.

Which is why they have no place in education. Teach Maths, French, Geography, whatever. Teach Philosophy like they do in France (or used to, not sure if they still do).

Allow children to skip lunch if their religion requires it. There doesn't need to be a big discussion about it. Not everything is a teaching moment.

So the school involved with the caricature of Mohammed is still feeling the anger of the parents.
I hear that the teacher involved is desperate and terrified
that his life is now over in teaching and he will also have to move out of his area. He is afraid for himself and his immediate family and did not realize that the blasphemy lesson would cause all this. I hear that his mother is distraught and also in fear of her life and she has moved out of the family home as she is afraid she too will be targeted.
Meanwhile his father has installed C.C.T.V all around the house, although what is he supposed to do sit in the house and not go outside.
I know the Muslims can be sensitive about religion but in 2021 in the U.K. surely something that was a mistake on the part of the teacher and has been apologized about should
now be put to rest. The school can have meetings with the local iman and others from the Muslim community and sort things out and get it under control when the school returns after Easter.

Let’s hear it for us Atheists - we’re very tolerant. We don’t take offence at any religion, just think - Nah not for us. We never knock on people’s doors to try to persuade them not to believe. We don’t tell impressionable children that someone who died can come back to life, or impose fatwahs , I think the world needs more of us ( ducks behind sofa!)

Comparative religious education is intended to give pupils in a multi-cultural society a basic understanding of the tenets of the six main world religions and develop a tolerance of others ' beliefs. Unfortunately it does not always extend both ways.

Comparative religious education is an important part of helping pupils develop understanding and tolerance. It’s shocking and indefensible that this teacher has been thrown to the wolves. It’s alleged he was teaching the same lesson plan as teachers in previous years.
I don’t understand why any teacher would use the cartoons, especially in a school with a high proportion of Muslim pupils. I’m not excusing the behaviour of those leading the protests. What a disaster for this young teacher and his family

Philosophical question.....

As an atheist, I would not want to take part in lessons that were under the banner of religious education, whether it was comparative or doctrinal. So how do I learn understanding and tolerance?

I agree wholeheartedly with the final paragraph in your post Iam64

Nanna58

Let’s hear it for us Atheists - we’re very tolerant. We don’t take offence at any religion, just think - Nah not for us. We never knock on people’s doors to try to persuade them not to believe. We don’t tell impressionable children that someone who died can come back to life, or impose fatwahs , I think the world needs more of us ( ducks behind sofa!)

I’m a humanist. I think that should also be taught as part of the curriculum.

I understood there was an Imam involved from a very narrow sect who was inflaming things outside the school.
I agree with a previous post from MOnica where she said both sides are unequivocally to blame.

Perhaps he should have shown a clip of Dave Allen doing one of his bishop sketches for balance. Or a clip from the Life of Brian.

If we go to a country with different religions to our own, we generally abide by that country's customs. ie covering up going into some churches, not drinking in Moslem countries. If someone is caught with alcohol in a country where it is forbidden, we tend not to be sympathetic.

We live in a tolerant society and anybody coming to the UK to live should accept that.

I think there is actually quite a strong inference in some religious teaching within schools that those who have a faith are somehow more worthy or just better people. I hope I taught my children to be strong enough to counter that narrative.

sodapop

I understood there was an Imam involved from a very narrow sect who was inflaming things outside the school.
I agree with a previous post from MOnica where she said both sides are unequivocally to blame.

We still don’t know the teachers side though do we? There is a suggestion being made that he was teaching from a prepared pack which included the cartoon and it had been used by other teachers in previous years. I think it’s just not on atm to assign culpability to him when we don’t know the facts. But we do know there was a mob outside the school and we do know that one of the groups involved posted his name on Twitter.

As an atheist, I would not want to take part in lessons that were under the banner of religious education, whether it was comparative or doctrinal. So how do I learn understanding and tolerance?
By attending the lessons and listening to explanations of the fundamental principles of different religions.
No one is asking you to agree with or share their beliefs, but it might help you understand why faith is important to some people.

But only the religions that you (I dont mean you personally) consider important. I cant speak for all atheists but for me it is almost impossible for me to understand why you would provide information on say the catholic religion and not say scientology. I respect Suzies point about understanding intolerance and persecution but I still find it troubling.

eazybee

*As an atheist, I would not want to take part in lessons that were under the banner of religious education, whether it was comparative or doctrinal. So how do I learn understanding and tolerance?*
By attending the lessons and listening to explanations of the fundamental principles of different religions.
No one is asking you to agree with or share their beliefs, but it might help you understand why faith is important to some people.

But I don't want anything to do with religion. I respect that people want to believe in things I don't believe in but attending any sort of class based on that is just anathema to me. I have friends and family who are strong believers, I understand fine how much their faith means to them, thanks.

I can understand that they have a strong faith without having to have lessons in it. So if I can, so can others. I'm also one of the few on here who seems to understand that we are applying our Western values to the values of Muslim people mortally offended by something we think is harmless.

So who understands other people's faiths better and has a bit more tolerance?

Just to add to my support for teaching about comparative religions, it should include all faiths and none. The three RE teachers I know well include one atheist (with a theology degree). They all start year 9 with the question ‘what is most important’. Of course, they get ‘what’s for dinner’ answers but go on to discuss issues that benefit from wide exploration, they teach in areas with diverse populations, one in a faith school. It isn’t about indoctrination, it should be the opposite

Religious fundamentalism has no place in this country, and this is what this was, typical Labour siding with them. You have to diffuse not pander to the mob.