I wish that I had a Faith

I know what "faith" means.

You can have faith in the doctor because s/he is sitting there in front of you and might have his/her medical degree framed on the wall. Chairs generally don’t give way under you because of physics. Unless they are badly made, of course. You get the card back because its less hassle for the financial institution to give it back than to keep it, unless you are a known criminal. And the default is to return the card, which is actually the simplest thing. (ask me how I know ) People who have actually worked on ATM design generally prefer Dip card readers where your card remains visible. So I have confidence in those things because its proven how they work.

So I don’t have faith in an unknown, invisible and supernatural entity. You may, but don't try to tell me its the same as expecting you'll get your card back.

Telling someone who has faith that they're immature, and believe, hope and think that everything will be sorted out for them is ridiculing volver, and also demonstrates that you have absolutely no understanding of what having religious faith means.

Faith isn't constrained to religion, we exercise faith in all areas of our lives. Faith that the doctor we see will be able to make a diagnosis and make us well. Faith that the chair you're about to sit on wont give way. Faith that when you put your card into a machine to withdraw money, that you'll get the card back.

Faith is the complete confidence in someone or something.

In my experience of life there are very few people indeed who can "sort it all out for themselves". We all need others, greatly; that's the foundation of humanism as well as finding oneself having a spiritual side to our lives.

IME also, far from childish or immature, taking on the task of compassion love in private and public life is a substantial undertaking, sometimes risky: my spiritual life helps shape the way I see the world, but we all live according to an ideology, which can include not adhering to a faith.

We need not lose respect because we disagree.

Reading different threads on Gransnet there are sometimes deliberate provocative statements which don't further the matter under discussion a great deal, indeed, they tend to upstage the matter in hand.

To add a practical note to those who dont have a faith of any kind,

...... please do remember that only a few with faith believe that a "God" can actually intervene at a personal or social level to change destinies, or give us life in the flesh after death: yes there are some who believe this as an absolute. Its probably better, when addressing people of faith as a group, to remember this: be specific?

People with a faith seem to think that any criticism of them is "ridiculing" them.

I don't believe what you believe and think that hoping that somebody/something else will sort out everything for you is immature, even if the somebody/something else is God. Sort it out for yourself. Stop relying on outside forces, even religious ones.

I care because you're all sat there telling me I'm ridiculing you, and expecting special treatment because you believe in a Bronze Age cult whose high priests get to sit in Parliament.

Good post Doodle yesterday @ 20.00. My faith has also served as a crutch. It helped me come to terms with the abuse I experienced as child, and our faith has sustained us through the last 10 years of estrangement from our son.

I don't understand why some feel the need to ridicule those with faith, any faith. What difference does it make to your life? Why do you care?

I'm sorry LHD, but now I'm put in mind of the People's Front of Judea and the Judean People's Front... 😏

The pacifist Quakers do like to have a good rammy, as only Quakers know how, between the Christocentrics (who believe that Quakerism is essentially Christian) and the Universalists (who believe that Quakers take the best elements of all faiths and none), the Theists (who believe in the conventional God) and the Non-Theists (who believe it's more complicated than that) and the non-Deists (who don't believe in God full stop).

The joke is that there are Quanglicans, Quatholics, Quews, Quslims, Quindus, Quddhists, Quagans and Quatheists. They may draw the line at Quatanists, or maybe not as they haven't deliberated on that yet at three successive Yearly Meetings. Essentially there's room for everybody.

Caleo

I agree with your opinion Volver.

Do you agree with me that the justification for God is man's everlasting quest for deity?

The real atheist then is not Volver or me, it's the man who believes he bloodywell knows the truth.

Thanks Caleo.

I'll have to think about your question!

NanaDana

Farzanah. At no time did I describe any specific individual as a Troll. My comments were purposefully generic. From your response, you have totally missed the point which I have been making about certain posts here. No-one, myself included, takes issue with the expression of "legitimate views" here, or with expression of strong opinions about subjects under discussion. What is unacceptable is when such discussion becomes personal, and descends to personal insult and ridicule. Others have also felt the need to point this out to the poster in question. Such belittling remarks have no place on GN, and I am surprised that you or anyone else would feel the need to defend such unacceptable, hurtful behaviour. That is truly discourteous.

Others have also felt the need to point this out to the poster in question.

So despite your disingenuous protestations to the contrary, you were talking about a particular individual then?

And yet the following lyric I have just copied and posted for the Gransnet lyrics game makes me shiver with appreciation:

And He will raise you up on eagles' wings
Bear you on the breath of dawn
Make you to shine like the sun
And hold you in the palm of His hand

We need to be careful not to set in place false idols.

I agree with your opinion Volver.

Do you agree with me that the justification for God is man's everlasting quest for deity?

The real atheist then is not Volver or me, it's the man who believes he bloodywell knows the truth.

Shinamae

My friend, goes to Quakers, and she really,really values the meetings…just saying…..
I find silences, quite uncomfortable personally..🤫

I love it...because being with people and not having to talk when you feel comfortable enough with them is like not having demands on me to have to respond, but certainly not feeling alone. Horses for courses, tho.

Mollygo. Yes, the follow up was interesting. Someone else actually made a cap and decided who it fitted. Irony?

My friend, goes to Quakers, and she really,really values the meetings…just saying…..
I find silences, quite uncomfortable personally..🤫

NanaDana
At no time did I describe any specific individual as a Troll.
No you didn’t. The follow up was interesting.

Thank you for your comments Farzanah.

Farzanah. At no time did I describe any specific individual as a Troll. My comments were purposefully generic. From your response, you have totally missed the point which I have been making about certain posts here. No-one, myself included, takes issue with the expression of "legitimate views" here, or with expression of strong opinions about subjects under discussion. What is unacceptable is when such discussion becomes personal, and descends to personal insult and ridicule. Others have also felt the need to point this out to the poster in question. Such belittling remarks have no place on GN, and I am surprised that you or anyone else would feel the need to defend such unacceptable, hurtful behaviour. That is truly discourteous.

Discourteous ……showing rudeness and a lack of consideration for other people. Should that not also apply to some other posters Farzanah? Or are they exempt from your criticism?

NanaDana volver3 isn’t a troll but is a long time poster and it is discourteous and wrong to state this. She/he is posting legitimate views here, as we are all entitled to do, and with which some may agree.

Well said Doodle.

Fanny forgot to say thank you for the

I have faith. I do use it as a crutch and have no shame in that.
It’s not a get out of jail free card. Doesn’t mean those with faith don’t suffer bereavement, loss, tragedy or disaster any more or less than those of no faith.
Anyone can and will obviously say what they want on this site (unless banned by GN) it’s just that some of us try to do so without resorting to ridule and mocking others with a different opinion.

Calling another poster a troll is not done NanaDana. Suggesting someone has multiple IDs is even worse.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Don’t flatter yourself that you know what I think GSM.

LRavenscroft wrote:

There are many people ... in need of a faith to 'get them through' the day because ... they may not be as... educated ... as those who think they have all the answers.

and

many of us need crutches to get through the day from fags to booze to anything addictive?

That’s pretty plain.

This is not a chat site for religious people. I’m not about to log on to such a site and tell them all how I disagree with them. But this is a site for people to discuss things. I’m under no obligation to pussyfoot around or to spout platitudes. Nor am I going to censor myself for writing what I believe to be the truth.