Mediumship demonstration

It seems its okay for the religious believers to poo poo the beliefs (or curiosity) of the non believers but not the other way around ?
I believe we should be allowed to believe whatever we like. Its a shame we cannot have an open discussion about our differences without forcing our differences on each other.
Whilst I understand there may be charlatans out there conning people out of money to tell them of their great aunt Maud, there are also Spiritualist Churches who don't take large sums of money, you know, like giving 10% in the Catholic Church.
I don't find suggesting Satan will be after you particularly pleasant reading tbh.....

dorabelle100

Grandmattie - says "laying yourself open to malevolent spirits" - but if there are evil spirits then there must also be good spirits - so how can we assume them all to be evil spirits.

The Bible says don’t do it, it’s dangerous. If you have no belief in God, the Bible, and how we all started, I understand that. However, someone going looking does have that desire presumably, and it is to those people we, as Christians, are trying to help.

Sorry....statement of fact

Alegrias1

Like I said above Smileless2012, people can believe what they want and its got nothing to do with me. There is a difference between belief and fact and although I will argue facts with anyone, anytime, I normally will not get involved in religious discussion.

However if someone states as fact that another person is wrong in their beliefs and that that they themselves know better, I find that unacceptable.

Interesting how this thread has moved on. Alegrias. I would say savvy made a statement of too, and was effectively telling previous posters they are wrong. We all do it. As a Christian, I recognise the urgency to get across to people, especially when dealing in the Oocult, which as Christians, we know this is, but appreciate if you don’t believe it. The Bible says many people won’t, so we expect it.

You must be able to see yourself in your last paragraph!

My maternal grandmother used to take my sister and I to Spiritualist meetings when we were teenagers to try and receive contact from our mother who died when we were small, we just found it all rather unpleasant and once old enough refused to go , but she got comfort from the possibilities offered.
To be honest you may as well go to see a good magician and they are equally convincing but more entertaining

I am completely against 'poking' these matters, and would run a mile from any kind of seance or ouija board. However, I sat with a woman some years ago, miles from home - we had no connection whatsoever. She told me some startlingly accurate things about my family and children - I hadn't mentioned family, and she then referred in some detail to an incident when my Mother died which left me speechless. She could not possibly have known about this - even if she had been fairly close to us at the time.

As a historian of religion, I would like to point out that there is no academically sound way in which we can prove or disprove the truth of any belief system - in other words in any religion or religious practice or rite.

What people chose to believe is a matter of faith - their faith in the religion they have either been brought up in, or have chosen as adults after mature consideration.

Mature consideration can obviously have led people to disbelieve in a religion or belief.

But whether they believe or disbelieve, nothing is open to emphirical proof.

From the point of view of academic research, it can be proved that many mediums and many of those who consult them firmly believe that these people are in contact with the souls or spirits of those they are relaying messages from.

That they believe this can be proved, but not that their belief is founded on incontovertible fact.

Anyone claiming to be in contact with the dead, or to forsee the future may unwittingly and unwillingly mislead the person who is seeking such contact.

And in this and in most other walks of life, there are unfortunately people who do not genuinely believe in the "goods" they are selling, but are running what is to them a lucrative scam.

However, it is usually just as difficult to prove that a medium is not a genuine believer in what he or she is doing, as to prove that they are.

In short, we all have to decide for ourselves what we believe in, or want to believe in. Emphirical proof is not an option.

Grandmattie - says "laying yourself open to malevolent spirits" - but if there are evil spirits then there must also be good spirits - so how can we assume them all to be evil spirits.

There is a good book by Richard Wiseman (I forget the title) where he explains in detail all the tricks that mediums use to pick up information from their client or audience, body language, various clues, and in the case of larger audiences, yes, they use plants and also their accomplices to go about listening to people's conversations, because people very often discuss the loved ones they would like to get messages from, with some details. They also use simple good guesses and generalities which are taken by often grieving and gullible people as proof of contact. ("Does anyone have a father named John?" - only about 30% of the audience! "I'm getting a message from someone on the other side who had a small dog that she loved . . ." Any takers?) It's at best entertaining rubbish and at worst, exploitative.

See, you're still doing it

Smileless2012

"That's a very Christian attitude DiscoDancer" it's a point of view. There's nothing non Christian about giving ones opinion and/or disagreeing with another. Jesus did it all the time.

It’s ok Smileless, many people still think being a Christian is to be ‘ good and nice’. Of course, we know Jesus didn’t suffer fools, especially the arrogant Pharisees. Many of today’s Church leaders are just modern day versions of them.

Thank you anyway, and God Bless

I've had two experiences. One, about 20 years ago, was when I went to a spiratulist church with a friend. I thought the messages the medium was talking about all seemed very generalised and I was not impressed. But then she turned to me and said "You have had 2 mothers". I was amazed as it is true in a way. I was adopted, so in that sense it's correct.
She added that one of them was present and was always looking out for me.
But just then the chairman stood up and said they were overrunning their time and the meeting was closed. So I was left hanging and wondered what else would have been said.
The second time was when I went to a palm reader in Swanage. I happened to be there on my own (long story) and just did it for fun really when I saw the Palm Reading sign.
What he told me about myself was so accurate that it shocked me. I know this is different from mediums, but I am sure there are more things in this life than we can ever understand.

Like I said above Smileless2012, people can believe what they want and its got nothing to do with me. There is a difference between belief and fact and although I will argue facts with anyone, anytime, I normally will not get involved in religious discussion.

However if someone states as fact that another person is wrong in their beliefs and that that they themselves know better, I find that unacceptable.

"That's a very Christian attitude DiscoDancer" it's a point of view. There's nothing non Christian about giving ones opinion and/or disagreeing with another. Jesus did it all the time.

I don't like these mediumship demonstrations as there are so many charlatons about. It's just a show with 'plants.'

I have seen a genuine medium who conducts business at her kitchen table on a one-to-one basis. She really knows her onions and has come out with the most astonishing things which were true. I only visited due to personal recommendation as she was very helpful to a friend.

That's a very Christian attitude DiscoDancer1975

(Everyone can decide for themselves if I'm being sarcastic or not.)

Alegrias1

DiscoDancer1975

Savvy

As a pagan, can I just point out that satan is a christian invention, no such entity exists in spiritualism.

Oh yes it does, you just don’t know it. He’s the father of lies and deceit, and he does it very well.

Live and let live, I say. Believe what you like, its a free country.

But people pretending they know better than me really grinds my gears.

That’s rich coming from you!!

Thank you all posters.
I apologise for being absent for the rest of the day. I had visitors, and didn't get back to the p.c.
I have read all posts.
SMILESS (at 17:03) & WITZEND (at 17:14) Thank you. I think you may have provided the kind of clarity I was seeking.

Also: FUSETA (at 15:19), GILLT (at 15:32), CHEWBACCA (at 15:40), and VAMPIREQUEEN (at 15:42). These posts resonated, and I thank you for taking the time to set your thoughts down.
I suppose, in the same way as a very wealthy person is unlikely to be a gold digger, any person providing a service at no charge, may be less of a fraud than one who requires payment. Or not!!
Perhaps we should leave it there, as I shall not be likely to respond again for several days.
Many thanks to all.
p.s. I just noticed the advert which is gracing the page.

I’m a non-attending Christian with just a touch of Buddhism.

My mother knew things before they happened, she hated this and did everything to suppress the knowledge. I suspect my son is similar.

I believe ‘some’ Mediums are genuine. However I wouldn’t go to a demonstration.

It's scamming the desperate for personal gain as opposed to the £10-15 billion the Catholic church has stashed in its coffers from donations, whilst knowing that it's devotees in, for example, Central America, are starving to death. Hmmm, yes, I see your point.

DiscoDancer1975

Savvy

As a pagan, can I just point out that satan is a christian invention, no such entity exists in spiritualism.

Oh yes it does, you just don’t know it. He’s the father of lies and deceit, and he does it very well.

Live and let live, I say. Believe what you like, its a free country.

But people pretending they know better than me really grinds my gears.

DiscoDancer1975

Savvy

As a pagan, can I just point out that satan is a christian invention, no such entity exists in spiritualism.

Oh yes it does, you just don’t know it. He’s the father of lies and deceit, and he does it very well.

Poor Satan. God's fall guy.

Chewbacca

But what harm would that be doing if it gave William, Walter, Wilf, Wilma's daughter a sense of peace or happiness? And as for money/collections.... doesn't every church pass the plate round for a collection? Don't some churches/places of worship/faiths expect their disciples to stump up a percentage of their income to support the church? My Catholic friends have "donated" 2% of theirannual income for as long as I've known them over 50 years. Are they being scammed?

It matters because it's fraud. It's scamming the desperate for personal gain.

It's not the same as the Church collection because they know they're donating to the upkeep of the church/parish funds.

Thank you Chewbacca.

It's a recreational drug GillT57. Official name is Dimethyltryptamine.