losing faith in a loving god

Farzanah

If prayer gives a person peace of mind I think that’s positive, and if praying for others others helps to encourage help or compassion it must be helpful.
I get similar feelings from meditation.

I agree.

If it makes people feel better, I'm all for it. Just like meditation or asking the Universe to intervene for you.

But it doesn't actually change what's going to happen.

He isn't my God Blondiescote.

I've already explained Farzanah that true love cannot be taught or instilled in us. In addition it cannot be forced or bought, it's either there or it isn't.

If prayer gives a person peace of mind I think that’s positive, and if praying for others others helps to encourage help or compassion it must be helpful.
I get similar feelings from meditation.

I have absolutely no idea volver and as I have just posted, I don't and never have believed that what ever has me miserable, was God moving in mysterious ways.

Yes volver I think it’s a cop out to say “God moves in mysterious ways”.

Smileless2012

I find your response a bit odd TBH volver. You stated that when we pray it doesn't help anyone but the one doing the praying. I disagree and explained why.

There was nothing in the post of mine you have quoted to suggest that without prayer, God would have ignored them or that the prayers we offered, made them a special case.

I genuinely can't get my head around that at all. You have said that you prayed for people and those prayers were answered. So, let's say you hadn't prayed for them - what then? If your 'god' had come to the rescue anyway, why bother praying in the first place?
I'm not trying to be difficult, by the way - I simply don't understand the logic behind that.

Smileless What do you mean by true love?

Sorry I wasn't trying to be funny with the mysterious ways quote. We cross posted.

You said Smileless2012, that you prayed for people and their/your prayers were answered.

So suppose those people didn't have any friends like you who were willing to pray for them, and they didn't have any faith themselves that led them to pray.

If they had a terrible illness, for example, was it the praying that helped them recover? If so, then God looks at people who pray to him and give him worship as more worthy of saving than those who don't. Is that the case?

If they were praying for something else, say the safety of a loved one in a war zone, did the praying actually help the person they were praying for? If the person next to them was an atheist, and they died, is that because God didn't hear anybody praying for them and so let them die?

Were they praying for a bigger house? Then that's just trivial.

It just doesn't bear any scrutiny, IMO. Especially if the prayers don't come true and somebody says something trite like "God moves in mysterious ways"

It is all about interpretation no, it is all about faith. I believe that He has been with me in my misery but never believed that what made me miserable was Him working in mysterious ways.

It is all about interpretation. Something good happens - we thank God. Something seriously bad happens - then logically we have to blame God. But no .... it is him working in mysterious ways and he is beside us in our misery.

I think it is called having your cake and eating it!!

We are free to love God and truly believe in Him Farzanah. True love and belief cannot be taught or instilled in us, either it is there or it isn't.

I find your response a bit odd TBH volver. You stated that when we pray it doesn't help anyone but the one doing the praying. I disagree and explained why.

There was nothing in the post of mine you have quoted to suggest that without prayer, God would have ignored them or that the prayers we offered, made them a special case.

I concur with what Antonia has said up thread about Free Will. We may not be as free as we think we are.
I used to belong to an evangelical church, but always felt a bit of an imposter because I simply didn’t believe some of the teachings, but enjoyed the feeling of belonging.
I have now found my home with like minded others who call themselves Humanists. I have come to the conclusion that this is the only life we have, don’t believe in an after life or supernatural being/s ordering our lives.
I try to make ethical decisions based on reason and empathy and concern for others. As to the meaning of life, because it is so transient, I aim to find some contentment/happiness in each day, hopefully helping others to do the same.

Smileless2012

Praying doesn't actually help anyone but you yes it does. It can and does help those that we pray for. I could give loads of examples of people we have prayed for, and the prayers have been answered.

To a non believer these would no doubt be seen as coincidences but I don't believe in coincidences; I believe in God.

If you hadn't prayed for them, would God have ignored them then? Did the prayers make them a special case? That's a bit odd.

Anniebach

Pray is not only asking, it’s praising, thanking , and it brings
the Peace Which Passeth All Understanding.

Exactly....it’s a complete relationship with God. Where you have it is unimportant.

Pray is not only asking, it’s praising, thanking , and it brings
the Peace Which Passeth All Understanding.

Luckygirl3

I think you will find that the whole concept of the body of Christ, whilst deeply meaningful to you and your fellows - and I respect that - is a completely empty phrase to the vast majority of the world's citizens who are of a variety of other faiths or none.

I read it to mean that we are all a part of each other and owe respect to all - I absolutely endorse that.

I think that when people say that they are Christians but do not belong to a church, they are saying either that they believe in a God; or that they broadly subscribe to the moral tenets of the New Testament.

I am an agnostic basically - I believe that not only do I not know if there is a god, but that no-one else does either. And indeed there is no way they can know.

I know that each religion claims that they do know, because of the arrival of a prophet of some kind, or because of the writings of people (usually men) around at the time, but they all find themselves interpreting what they read in different ways, with the result that any truth that might lie therein is corrupted by the needs and greeds and desires of those doing the interpreting.

What I find so interesting in Rutter's stance is that he no longer believes in a god, but he does believe in the importance of the search; and sees that the world would be a poorer place without that. But he also fears fundamentalism - as I do. Religions deal in fundamentals and cannot help but gravitate towards fundamentalism.

My searching has led me to the doctrine of kindness, because it seems to me that is really all that matters. I am not very good at it some of the time - but it is what I strive towards.

To be honest I think that it would be very helpful if everyone took that as their goal - and I am sure the vast majority of people (of any and no religion) would agree with this. Sadly there are those who entirely reject this - Putin, Hitler and the rest.

For me religion gets in the way of that.

Couldn't have said how I think better!

Smileless2012

William Temple "When I pray coincidences happen and when I don't, they don't".

Yes...I remember years ago, ( when I did go to church), one of the speakers saying there is no such thing as coincidence after prayers....more ‘Godincidence’.

One of the few things that has stuck with me.

That's lovely Oldwoman.

My faith has sustained me through many difficult times - one time I was in hospital about to undergo a serious operation. I prayed - not to be healed or even for the operation to be a success but to have the courage to face whatever was to come. I was suddenly engulfed by a wonderful feeling of calm, my fear was gone and I knew that everything was going to be OK.

William Temple "When I pray coincidences happen and when I don't, they don't".

Lovetopaint037

I can only agree with you. God has/is walking besides me my whole life.

God is right there in the midst of trouble and heartache, he walks besides us and gives us the strength to continue.

He is not a magician, our ways are not his ways, we have to put our trust in him. X

Praying doesn't actually help anyone but you yes it does. It can and does help those that we pray for. I could give loads of examples of people we have prayed for, and the prayers have been answered.

To a non believer these would no doubt be seen as coincidences but I don't believe in coincidences; I believe in God.

paddyann54

Its the converts that insist on "telling others about him" that annoy me most .Have your beliefs but please dont attempt to convert me .Haven't "christians "done enough harm when they sent missionaries to convert ethnic communities not only to the "christian" religion but detsroyed the lives of millions who were perfectly happy with the life they had .
Sadly some of you still think thats OK .

There's a difference between true missionaries that take the gospel to those who haven't heard it from countries that have adopted a national "christian religion" that have waged war and built empires supposedly in the name of Jesus. Have a read of John Rutter that Luckgirl posted - christianity without a god.
We all are appalled at Putin / Russian invasion of Ukraine. But what about the when the UK joined the USA and invaded Kuwait and later Iraq. Didn't Blair claim he and president Bush pray about this beforehand. Don't know which god this was to but unlikely Jesus said 'go ahead'. Don't think our loving God sanctions the Russian invasion either but at least Putin doesn't claim he is doing God's will. Putin will be driven by other spiritual forces...
By the way I can't 'convert' you to Christianity but, as both Discodancer and Smileless said we are called to tell you about Jesus. But appreciate you don't want to know so I'll stop here.