The devil

CCC I’m curious, you say the boy was born with a
Bad streak in him, so where do you surmise this bad streak came from ?

lots have been written about the devil,and that's it ,what we have been told or read.If we open our eyes there is much evil in the world,put a d in front of evil and you have 'devil' It seems to me that at present with wars, environmental damage, advanced capitalism, materialism, narcissism ,i would say the devil has the upper hand.Prophets come along throughout time to tell us how to live, but they usually get murdered! Taoism has a good idea of yin and yang a bit more realistic,rather than a man with horns and a fork.
there does seem to be a battle with good and evil.

The Bible talks about good and evil and certainly mentions Lucifer as an angel who led a rebellion against God and was cast out of Heaven.

In the Book of Job, Satan asks God if he may tempt Job and is given permission to do so. Incidently, the name Satan in Hebrew means a prosecutor and in the Jewish tradition he is seen as a sort of celestial Prosecutor Fiscal whose job is to accuse our souls before the throne of God.

The New Testament talks of Jesus being tempted by the Devil, and casting devils out of those who are possessed by them, but nowhere do we find the horned monster from the Middle Ages . The thought that something or perhaps someone tempts people to do wrong is certainly Biblical, but you could chose to believe "the tempter" is our own less-than- kind desires.

Other religions have other conceptions of how evil manifests itself on earth, but no religion denies that evil is a force to be reckoned with.

Presumably, there has never been a person who was never tempted to do something wrong and acted on the impulse.

Whether they (we) tempt ourselves, or are tempted no-one really knows. Both theologians and psycologists differ in their views, as the do on whether you can be born evil, or become it, due to abuse or neglect that you experience.

As to where we go when we die, Christianity teaches that those who truly repent the wrong they have done will be forgiven. This presumably means that true repentence prevents the repentant soul from going to hell. However, it should be taken into account that Christianity also teaches that only those who believe that Jesus Christ is God and rose from the dead will be saved.

Other religions too have criteria for salvation that differ naturally from the Christian view, although repentence for wrong-doing is usually a condition.

I think devils walk amongst us as do angels.
There are people who harm others and live their lives to gain as much as they can no matter who suffers.
Angels are those who care for others often putting their own needs aside to help people.
So no I don't believe in a devil. There are lots of them around.

Evil certainly exists, the concept of the devil is primitive uneducated nonsense.

The 'Devil' was invented by the church in the Middle Ages to keep the masses in fear. The mentions of the Devil in the Bible are not references to the same being. The Devil mentioned in the story of Lot for example was a member of God's court. Religion is a device for keeping the people in order and Heaven is simply an example of jam tomorrow. That's why the Tories are so keen on religion.

To those who say God doesn't exist, it's nonsense etc, can I just say, that is your belief. I believe that God and Satan exist.

The devil is the expression of human nature at its worst behaviour.

There are few emotions, if any, more powerful than fear. If it is made clear to the masses that if they fail to behave in the way authority tells them to, they will suffer eternal damnation and everlasting pain, but if they do as they are told, it will be all harps and angels. Suffer now on earth, starve, work until your back breaks, obey the rules, die young, see your children die of hunger, and eventually enter eternal glory. Disobey your priest and you are condemned. Must have been pretty hard to be an ignorant, illiterate, impoverished peasant with not much chance of standing up to a Church full of rich, massively powerful men. Must have been pretty hard for women who were easily and casually blamed for their own rape as adulterers (and still are) as well as witchcraft and other female sins. All Eve's fault, of course. God and the Devil are man-made (man, specifically) inventions designed to control the populace and ensure that the rich and powerful could retain their wealth, control and comfort.

I agree with Riverwalk

Esspee

Evil certainly exists, the concept of the devil is primitive uneducated nonsense.

That just about sums it up.

absent Your views match mine.

Go out with a reporter's notebook and make a list of all the evil things your hear and see around you - war, famine, manipulation, cruelty, people's inhumanity to people. It's all there and always has been to a great or lesser extent. We can only do our best on a personal level to change anything we consider to be wrong.

I agree with Heidismom.

I believe the devil is a term for evil and there is plenty of it around on this earth. At church today we were studying the 10th psalm which is interesting, the last verse especially. ‘All have sinned and fallen short of the glory’of course, but all may be forgiven, too. I would say when we are tempted to do the wrong thing, that is the devil doing the tempting.

Doodledog

snowberryZ

I watched We Need to talk about Kevin on Netflix recently.
I know it's only fiction but that boy was truly evil in my opinion.
I know a mother's love is supposed to be unconditional but I could never forgive my child for doing that to a sibling.

Completely tangental to the thread, but if you read the book you might doubt whether Kevin was responsible for a lot of what he was blamed for. I enjoyed the film, but thought it lost a lot of the ambiguity of the book, which was much more about nature/nurture than the film got across.

Have to disagree Doodledog. Kevin was evil - born bad or disturbed or whatever. Nature won out in this case absolutely.

I've read the book and watched the film, though I do admit people are divided in their opinions as to the 'cause' of Kevin's badness.

Stormystar

CCC I’m curious, you say the boy was born with a
Bad streak in him, so where do you surmise this bad streak came from ?

His genes, i.e. nature.

In the late 70’s, training at work tended to behavioural models, put simply, ‘all behaviour is learned behaviour’. Of course life isn’t that simple. I’d find only one of five siblings would get into delinquency, then crime, often involving drugs/alcohol/violence despite sharing the same parents and upbringing. Often a detailed family tree would identify uncle Johnny, whose behaviour and personality are similar to the current ‘problem’ child.

Nature/ genetics play a significant role. Some people are drawn to the dark side. I agree that faith/culture/religion can be used to oppress but as with personality development, it’s not that simple. There’s research indicating people with faith have better physical and mental health

Interesting isn’t it.

I have not read the book, but can I just point out that it is fiction Kevin is a fictional character created by the author. So is his mother.

Grantanow

The 'Devil' was invented by the church in the Middle Ages to keep the masses in fear. The mentions of the Devil in the Bible are not references to the same being. The Devil mentioned in the story of Lot for example was a member of God's court. Religion is a device for keeping the people in order and Heaven is simply an example of jam tomorrow. That's why the Tories are so keen on religion.

Oh for goodness sake. Was that last comment necessary?

As said above, the devil is a church device to warn of Evil - to not succumb to the ‘temptation’ of doing what’s not in the common good.
I’ve been watching a Netflix series called ‘Dope’ about the problem drug use causes in the (mainly) USA, with people from makers to distributors, to those running a street network, to those actually dealing and then the end user. There has been regular mention by those involved in the supply chain of the evil being done - but justified in sorts by it being an escape from the terrible poverty most grew up in. It was those that didn’t use themselves that had a great moral struggle.
Am I interested in the drug trade - no, but very much so in the human condition.

I don't believe in either.

Agree with Grantanow. An invention to keep people in check.

Watched the story of burning the Witches last night. A great excuse to get rid of any woman who questionned the total power of men, and terrified those who were tempted to do the same.

And of course, the story or Adam and Eve was never about poor man being tempted by bad woman- but the story was translated from Hebrew deliberately falsely, again, to put the blame for evil on women who date think outside the man's box.

The original Hebrew contained several synonyms for man and mankind- never about man and woman.

I don’t believe in supernatural beings good or bad. What I do understand is that there may be many reasons why humans behave badly, or well, but I don’t believe the devil is one of them.

No one chooses their parents, their genes, or their early environment for starters.

Well one thing is for sure- that you will all believe on the day you die and come face to face with the spiritual reality of your existence- reality that Satan and the world and your own sinfulness have been blinding you to your whole life. Then of course it will be too late for you and you will likely end up in eternal damnation. Most of you will. God offered you a way to be saved eternally in this life by sending his only son, Jesus Christ, that anyone who turns away from his sins and puts his trust and faith in Jesus who came as a human baby but who is God the Son, shall be saved. It is not rocket science but some of you are way too self righteous or post-whatever or too cosy with your sinful life to grab hold of the ark. Jesus said that FEW will find the Way. He is the Way, the Truth and the Life. Don't be a dafty. You mostly belong to Satan and his devils currently. Choose Life today!