Britain is as Bad ,or Worse than ,Israel: British Oppression

I agree curtaintwitcher one of our AC lived in Kenya, it really appears to be a national occupation to run down the U.K. along with its past and present achievements.

Why is there all this negativity about the British Empire? There were many benefits too....and don't forget the other countries which ruled a piece of Africa....Germany, Portugal, Belgium, France.
I used to live in Kenya and the local people gained a great deal from our presence in the country.
So many Africans have moved to Britain, adopted our lifestyle, given their children European names, so obviously they admire us and want to emulate us. Yet all we hear is negativity.

For 10 years I campaigned with many to save Capel Celyn, we failed to save it,England had spoken. 59 years later an apology was extended to the villagers by Liverpool council, didn’t mean a thing , how could an apology from the King take away the harm caused. Shallow words

Anniel

I thought this thread was part of a subject about religion and who do I find? Why the lefties like Glorianny giving it large about reparations etc. is there nowhere free of these left wing socialists? I believe in Free Speech but like to find a section of GRANSNET they do not visit. Luckily, these people are a minority (maybe not in Scotland) Oh well maybe we can convert the non believers!

I thought this thread was about the King, our head of state and also head of the Commonwealth apologising to the people who suffered when this country controlled their country and abused, tortured and killed thousands of people simply because they wanted independence. You would imagine that if he was concerned with Commonwealth relationships he would want to do so.

Anniel you do understand that Socialism was founded on CHRISTIAN principles .Standards that are sadly lacking in right wing politics where the rich get richer and the poor dont count .Scotlands government is thankfully a bit more left leaning than the rest of the UK we care what happens to the poorest .Thats why our child payment is being lauded by childrens charities accross the UK and young people are being given the chance of a decent education without a huge debt at the end of it oh and free travel while they are in education or training and earning very little.

Anniel, even Caleo an atheist, admires and loves the reasonnng of Jesus:

Mathew 19:23-24 — Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”23 Apr 2021

I thought this thread was part of a subject about religion and who do I find? Why the lefties like Glorianny giving it large about reparations etc. is there nowhere free of these left wing socialists? I believe in Free Speech but like to find a section of GRANSNET they do not visit. Luckily, these people are a minority (maybe not in Scotland) Oh well maybe we can convert the non believers!

Glorianny wrote:

"Let's be clear about the apology that was being asked for. It was not for slavery. It was for the actions of the British in the 1950s when a Kenyan group trying to gain independence (named the Mau-Mau by us) were wrongfully imprisoned, tortured and killed by the British.
I remember the news when I was a child. This was a dreadful period in the history of Kenya and the King should have apologised. He may not have been Head of State but his mother was. And the apology is not personal it is for the actions of the British state.
www.theguardian.com/global-development/2023/oct/31/king-charles-asked-for-unequivocal-apology-by-kenya-human-rights-commission#:~: "

I agree. but ' I'd go further and say an apology is more than words ; it's actions. Kenyans of the labouring class are to this day employed by inheritors of colonial exploitation.

Social class difference takes many forms, world wide, and always did. There was never a golden age and never will be, until socialism is foremost in men's intentions.

Callistemon21

Glorianny

nanna8

I remember reports about the Mau Mau. They murdered, raped and burnt things down. Not a nice bunch at all. Funny how history changes perceptions. I am certain the British weren’t lily white, either but it isn’t a case of brave, fearless freedom fighters being tortured for their beliefs, there’s more to it than that.

No one is changing perceptions.
32 British people were killed.
90,000 Kenyans were executed, tortured or maimed
News reports at the time were incredibly biased.

As is your post, Glorianny!

You failed to mention that thousands of the Kenyans were killed by the Mau Mau.

They were
And the first president of Kenya, Jomo Kenyatta, was a member of the Mau Mau.

Glorianny

nanna8

I remember reports about the Mau Mau. They murdered, raped and burnt things down. Not a nice bunch at all. Funny how history changes perceptions. I am certain the British weren’t lily white, either but it isn’t a case of brave, fearless freedom fighters being tortured for their beliefs, there’s more to it than that.

No one is changing perceptions.
32 British people were killed.
90,000 Kenyans were executed, tortured or maimed
News reports at the time were incredibly biased.

As is your post, Glorianny!

You failed to mention that thousands of the Kenyans were killed by the Mau Mau.

nanna8

I remember reports about the Mau Mau. They murdered, raped and burnt things down. Not a nice bunch at all. Funny how history changes perceptions. I am certain the British weren’t lily white, either but it isn’t a case of brave, fearless freedom fighters being tortured for their beliefs, there’s more to it than that.

No one is changing perceptions.
32 British people were killed.
90,000 Kenyans were executed, tortured or maimed
News reports at the time were incredibly biased.

I remember reports about the Mau Mau. They murdered, raped and burnt things down. Not a nice bunch at all. Funny how history changes perceptions. I am certain the British weren’t lily white, either but it isn’t a case of brave, fearless freedom fighters being tortured for their beliefs, there’s more to it than that.

Beautiful country, beautiful people, we were fortunate to spend a month in Kenya at end of 2019.

Caleo

Yes I have heard of the Mau Mau . British propaganda the time allowed only one sided accounts of the Kenyan struggle for independence .

The reason for the Government's propaganda was that Kenya's rich agriculture was profitable for British financial interests and investments. I was uninformed and easily fooled by establishment propaganda. It seems many other Grans here were likewise misinformed .

My friend was born and grew up there until they fled.

Yes I have heard of the Mau Mau . British propaganda the time allowed only one sided accounts of the Kenyan struggle for independence .

The reason for the Government's propaganda was that Kenya's rich agriculture was profitable for British financial interests and investments. I was uninformed and easily fooled by establishment propaganda. It seems many other Grans here were likewise misinformed .

Callistemon21

The Mau Mau terrorised ordinary Kenyans too, as well as people of British origin.
Hailed now as freedom fighters but their massacres are horribly echoed today in the recent massacre in Israel.

Well that's OK then they deserved to be tortured and hanged, starved, held in camps, raped and castrated.
The British actions were like Hamas as well.

Callistemon21

The Mau Mau terrorised ordinary Kenyans too, as well as people of British origin.
Hailed now as freedom fighters but their massacres are horribly echoed today in the recent massacre in Israel.

Only the British are singled out for a good old telling off by some tho.Apologise! Pay up! 😄

That's strange because only 32 British died
The number killed in the uprising is a subject of much controversy. Officially the number of Mau Mau and other rebels killed was 11,000, including 1,090 convicts hanged by the British administration. Just 32 white settlers were killed in the eight years of emergency.

However, unofficial figures suggest a much larger number were killed in the counter-insurgency campaign.

The Kenya Human Rights Commission has said 90,000 Kenyans were executed, tortured or maimed during the crackdown, and 160,000 were detained in appalling conditions

Some of the tortures were horrible, women were raped and men were castrated.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12997138

The Mau Mau terrorised ordinary Kenyans too, as well as people of British origin.
Hailed now as freedom fighters but their massacres are horribly echoed today in the recent massacre in Israel.

Let's be clear about the apology that was being asked for. It was not for slavery. It was for the actions of the British in the 1950s when a Kenyan group trying to gain independence (named the Mau-Mau by us) were wrongfully imprisoned, tortured and killed by the British.
I remember the news when I was a child. This was a dreadful period in the history of Kenya and the King should have apologised. He may not have been Head of State but his mother was. And the apology is not personal it is for the actions of the British state.
www.theguardian.com/global-development/2023/oct/31/king-charles-asked-for-unequivocal-apology-by-kenya-human-rights-commission#:~:

What about the way we were also treated by the wealthy in this country? Little children made to work in factories or on ships, or lowered down chimneys at the age of three or four. Women working in factories with babies strapped to their backs, or making matches and having the sulphur literally melt their faces over time. Perhaps their families should also be compensated? Where does it end? But I am certainly not being held responsible for something I didn't do. My ancestors were miners, not gentry. They had no say in regard to slavery and were mistreated themselves. What is really required is forgiveness, not resentment and apportioning blame.

Had the Government spent possibly years arguing the toss, people would still have been enslaved. The payments set them free - and quickly. I thought that might be distasteful to those who will never see anything good in the best of efforts - a bitter verbal leitmotif running throughout the posts.

Caleo

I endorse Glorianny:I "wondered about him not apologising. I think I heard the reason was because the atrocities were not committed by this generation. But weren't the atrocities committed in the name of the state? And doesn't Charles represent the state? So any apology would not be a personal one but one on behalf of the state which does not change from one generation to the next but is a constant. He should have apologised and reparation should be made."

Oh no they shouldn't. All long dead,no one of African descent alive in the U K had experienced slavery. Although they may have done from their fellow Africans.
Now in Africa itself ,that's a different matter, Tuareg still keep slaves, Libya deal in slaves. As for the Barbery pirates, shall the ancestors of that slavery get reparations because their long dead ancestors were stolen from these shores, and Ireland and sol into slavery. Did you know the whole population of Gozo, in the med, were taken for slaves by Barbery pirates. Move along, boring now.

Aren't we supposed to have better values?
🤔 Those were the values of the time.

We have moved on since then. Lessons have been learned.

GrannyGravy That is why Portuguese is the most widely spoken language in the Southern Hemisphere.

Glorianny

Fairycakes

We had to purchase them from the slave owners. The owners were not just going to set them free on our say so.

You do understand that these slave owners were British and the act of 1833 made slavery illegal in Britain and her colonies. The act said they had to set them free. So what you are saying is the slave owners would have broken the law.

How do you think the Act of 1833 got through Parliament? There were many MP's and Lords who owned slaves so there had to be a sweetener hence the repayments. Shameful, I agree but at least slaves were free.