Population

I seeeeeee! I nearly got into bed and then realised.

Of course your answer was correct, baggy! You are a scientist. I was expecting the wrong thing. Oh deary me.

Once again, good night, sweet ladies.

Uh - what? I went to bed!
Seriously though, I know that was a very much simplified version, BUT

Our economic and social systems have always been based on growing...and when do we realise that we really can't go ON growing?
We have limited space and resources, just like those rabbits.
If it is 'grow or die' - then we will DIE. I am just hoping that enough of our human race has enough intelligence and push not to destroy itself.

And another analogy.
When you keep six rats in a reasonable sized cage, they can live happily.
If you put twelve rats in that cage, they will kill each other.

Yes, I am pessimistic.

Some UK doctors have been secretly filmed agreeing to terminate a pregnancy because the parents did not want a girl. We know gender selective abortion is so rife in China that they are expecting a serious imbalance of the sexes when the present generation of children is of marriageable age. Will people once again be so afraid of being accused of not 'respecting' other cultures that nothing will be done?

Thanks, Oxon! I was just being dense. Thought you'd gone to bed, and it looks like you slept well? Haven't met you at 4 a.m. for a while!

I am a tad sensitive about large families as my daughters have four and six children respectively. However, as one now lives in NZ, with a population of only 4 million, she was welcomed with open arms. Two of her girls are training to be a doctor and a biomedical chemist. The girl at school also is inclined to science, but the youngest boy wants to be a writer. She has never lived on benefits - she and her husband both worked very hard to support the family. She was Drug Action Officer for a large area, but now works at growing their food and keeping pigs and hens - she devotes three days a week to Riding for the Disabled, and so does her 14 year old daughter. She has two grandchildren, but none of the family wants to have a large family themselves. I suppose they have seen how much work and expense it entails.
The Daily Mail recently pubished a story about a family of ten being given a large house - it turned out they had seven children of their own and had taken in three children of the woman's sister thus saving the nation a considerable amount of money. The father had always worked but had recently been made redundant and was trying hard to get another job. I do loathe this DM mentality, that everybody with a large family/forced to live on benefits for a time must be an idle scrounger.

I agree, Greatnan. It's on a par with "I'm not racist but...."

To come back to the Chinese, they are the only country so far to fully realise the problems of overpopulation and to act on it. I don't think they have tackled it very well, but they have tried to put something into operation....
I guess you can tackle it from the top, or from the grassroots by providing universally available contraception.

From the objective point of view (and don't jump down my throat until I've finished!) less females would be a help in restraining population growth.. ..another analogy here with animals is the way less female alligators or crocodiles are born if the temperature is lower, I think that's right...so less babies are hatched.
NOT that I agree with gender selective abortions, it could lead to women becoming, once again, valuable and desired chattels!

Chattels being the operative word, Oxon. Most men would still want a wife and some poor women could end up having to 'service' two or more men. There could be kidnappings and more rapes.
What would help in controlling population growth is more education of girls and women and for religions to stop forbidding the use of contraception.

Exposing boy babies on a mountain side might work too, but it's probably not to be recommended.

Yes, it seems to be overlooked that most women can only produce one baby a year, whilst a man can impregnate hundreds of women. I thought the Birkenhead drill (women and children first) was based on this fact!

Where education has been available to girls for a few generations, where people have, on average, enough to live on reasonably comfortably, where there is at least some free health care, where there is clean water and sanitation, where, in short, living standards have risen and people have more 'security' and don't need to rely so much on their children as they grow old, population growth rates have fallen naturally. Most European states are a classic example. In France they fell so much the government actually encourages larger families.

Seems to me that the solution, though slow and complex and difficult, is obvious. Educate women and encourage prosperity for "the masses".

"Teach a girl, feed a village" - Pace Universal, a charity dedicated to rescuing and educating girls. So true.

I like the sound of that charity - I will google it and see if I can make a regular donation.

Fibonacci numbers =

1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55 and so on.
Lots of things in nature are these numbers:
Count flower petals and they are usually one of these number or double one of these number.

Re today's story about abortions: I listened to the radio this morning and interestingly no mention was made of the race/religion of these women or their doctors.
Not that that makes any difference to the moral or legal aspect, but it is just interesting that people have made an assumption about who these women are (not just gransnet people but a class I go to on Thursday mornings) who want to abort a baby because of its sex. Why is it automatically assumed that they are Muslims or "not British" or whatever; they could be middle class white people who want just one of each to make their lives all neat and tidy. Personally I can't help thinking that if it matters that much then you are not fit to be a parent whoever you are - on the other hand I know there are cultural pressures that cannot just be ignored.

Greatnan they have a school at Piyali Junction in the slums of Calcutta, where they help girls escape being sold to the sex trade and other horrors. The Rotary Cub at Piyali is heavily involved, and there's an inspirational woman called Deepa Willingham in California (Rotary again) who gave a talk at a conference I attended and had me in tears. Well worth a look for her - I think she may be on YouTube.

Have gransnetters made an assumption "about who these women are" who choose to abort a foetus because of its sex? I certainly haven't.

Thank you, Ariadne, it sounds a really worthwhile charity.
Carboncareful - the doctor who was filmed agreeing to do this was Asian and as the practice is common in India I think people are entitled to assume that most people requesting it would be from some culture where girls are held in very low esteem.

Ariadne, the charity you mention sounds well worthwhile. You not only feed a village when you educate a woman, you also educate the next generation.

I wanted to provide some condoms via Oxfam, but they don't seem to be doing that anymore. Why not?

Most of the NGOs are terrified of population stuff these days. I have written to some of them and they as good as admit it. The anti-abortion, anti-contraception lobby; fundamentalist religious group etc are very strong and influential - and even the mention of overpopulation sends them into a lather.
I despair - I mean really they just all need a lesson in mathematics.....