Never will go to Malta again...

Snails..... Shudder. granjura, if you are going to Sicily, as well as the delightful Montalbano, Mimi and Fazio, they also have the Mafia!

A French girl I knew was disappointed that there were no edible snails roaming around the UK for her to catch and cook, but she worked out what the reason was - the British don't eat their thrushes, so they were eating up all the snails. If we were to eat the thrushes, then we would have snails to eat too!

I agree Agus, that is horrible, the France and skylarks trapping.As RQ says though, we would never go anywhere if we looked at all the things that took place in different countries!

I am wondering how many would stop visiting France if they new about the annual bird net trapping there?

Approx one million Skylarks are trapped in nets in Autumn where live birds are tethered at the nets to lure others.

The netting method is also used to trap other species, eg, Lapwing, Grey and Golden Plover etc.

I don't approve of this in any country and turned down invitations from my French neighbours to a traditional Lark feast.

I am trying but failing to work out that we should look at other countries' practices before we visit and perhaps see what we can do about it but looking at what we do in our own country (and perhaps seeing what we can do about it) is making a 'cheap point'.

I do apologise for only posting occasionally, I only have time to come and look at the forums and site sometimes and I do enjoy reading people's opinions.
It's really good I'd say that people have the sensitivity to care about animals as well as humans (and actually humans are animals too!) and to be aware of practices that take place in countries we might visit and to think how much we mind and whether there's anything we can do. That's what I do and I think the 'look at your own country first' is just making a cheap point.
Similarly, arguments about killing farmed as opposed to wild animals. We will never persuade everyone to become vegetarian, even if it would be better for their health. What we can do is have good welfare laws about how animals are kept and the UK/EU can be proud about this.
I mind about the dolphins because it's a recent practice, not a long ago cultural one; it's about money, and although some dolphin meat is taken for eating (although it's high in mercury and not many do eat it now), most of the dolphins are taken into captivity and kept in less than ideal circumstances. They are mammals with the same nervous and emotional system as us, they are also highly intelligent. Frankly, what we do to them is torture.
But that's off topic. If you are an RSPB member, as I am, you know how stubborn the Maltese are about the killing of birds and underlying the issue, as ever, is money. It's always the same. I do urge anyone to look at the RSPB site for lots of good information about birds throughout the world and their conservation. Given how fast the world is changing through a growing human population and also through climate change, I just don't feel that I can stand back and say 'it's just their culture' or similar.

Is it worse to kill a wild bird and eat it (not talking about the migrating birds in Malta here, but more like a partridge or similar) than eat a chicken which has spent 6 weeks being fattened up in a shed with thousands of others?

If anyone has been to see the Paddington movie they may be upset at the following:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3016385/Paddington-s-saviours-Mail-Sunday-readers-donate-astonishing-30-000-fly-tortured-bear-rescued-Peru-circus-new-home-U-S-sanctuary.html
(that dreadful MOS to the rescue again!)

Not that I am thinking of going to Peru this year.

Back to my earlier post. As I said bird hunting is legal in Portugal. I know several men who are hunters and they seem nice kind men in every other way. They will tell proudly that they have to study and pass an exam before being allowed to shoot. They eat birds they shoot. And rabbits and wild boar too. I don't like like hunting. I like even less the ones who go out and shoot indiscriminately. Less still the trapping of birds and small animals, which is illegal.
It is 'traditional'. The south of Portugal was a very poor area, still is in some parts. Most of those hunting can remember their grandparents and parents hunting for something to feed their families on.

The dolphins rounded up in the Taiji hunt are killed for human consumption. The killing is not just done for sport. It's a traditional source of food in that part of the world.

Just thought I'd mention this as someone stated that the Taiji dolphins are not eaten. They are.

I disagree 100% with what has happened in Malta but I think rosequartz is right in pointing out that most countries have some practices that people might disapprove of.

I always feel sorry for those little birds that Spanish people tend to keep in tiny cages on their balconies - a living death if ever there was one. Bull fights and running with the bulls is horrible. In a lot of countries, all sorts of animals can be seen crammed into tiny cages in markets. The abuse of animals all round the world is horrific and it would be difficult to find anywhere that isn't cruel in some way.

Apart from that, many countries have practices that are cruel to human beings too.

Oh, not at all granjura, like you I am questioning why there is an exemption and I don't think there should be. I am astonished that the EU have not clamped down on this, they seem to enforce stringent rules about other things, some quite ridiculous.
In fact, I think it would be more effective for pressure groups to lobby the EU to get this referendum made null and void. The EU has given Malta an exemption and therefore will not make sanctions or reduce subsidies.

However, whilst not visiting Malta could hit their tourist industry and make them think again, I doubt it would be in sufficient numbers to make a difference. Unfortunately most people would shrug their shoulders and think 'so what', I'm not cutting off my nose to spite my face'.
Unfortunate but true.

I've just done a long post about hunting in Portugal but I couldn't post it.
Briefly, bird hunting is still legal in season which runs roughly from the end of October to the beginning of March.

I agree rosequartz, it is not easy to choose countries which are 100% ethical... We are off to Sicily this week, and I am sure there is plenty happening there which I would not be happy about. But I think in this case it is clear, people had the choice, and chose not to support a ban. People who do not want, eg as said above the 'vast majority' lose their rights to be offended if they choose not to vote. And as said, intimidation is a big thing in rural communities, here, there or anywhere.

It is not right that there is an exemption for Malta on the basis of 'tradition'- tradition has a lot to answer for. FGM is also a tradition... should then approve of it?

But there are 2 issues here, one is the shooting of turtle doves and partridge- and the other is the totally illegal killing of 1000000 of song birds and raptors. No Law will make a difference until the Police will act and not protect hunters- and pressure from the EU via subsidies would be a good way to 'concentrate the mind'.

Having worked with wildlife conservation officers and police in the UK- it is true that birds are well looked after in hunting country due to preservation of the habitat. But this is certainly NOT the case for birds of prey, which are still shot and poisoned by game keepers in large numbers in the UK, tragically.

They can't want to shoot them for food, surely?
Exhausted, stressed, underfed birds would not be good to eat, so it must be for so-called 'sport'.

Let's hope the younger generation will be more enlightened.
In the meantime the EU should be urged to look again at this 'exemption'.

Game shooting (including grouse) in the UK is managed. Whether or not you agree with it the birds are healthy, not exhausted during migration, and stand a fair chance of getting away. Grouse are 'farmed' birds which are shot for a reason - they're a lucrative food product.

Wild birds are often safer in an area that's used for shooting game birds.

If we looked at the customs of many countries that we disagree with we may end up not going anywhere.
When we visited Australia we heard that a certain group of peoples has an exemption from the ban on killing dugong and marine turtles but I will still go there although I disagree with the exemption. This group are allowed to continue with their killing because it is 'traditional'.
Bull running and bull fighting makes me sick to think about but I would still go to Spain.

If the vast majority of Maltese are against this then I don't understand why it was passed by a small majority. I cannot understand, either, when the UK has to abide by EU rules, whether sensible or not, Malta can decide to flout them just because it is a democracy - so is the UK.

Surely the EU can override this decision and warn the Maltese government that this is not acceptable, and there will be consequences if they continue.

I do think it is very sad that exhausted migrating birds are shot indiscriminately, but then again the 12th August (so-called The Glorious 12th) starts the grouse shooting season in the UK and many people do go out shooting all over the UK. We often hear shots here when we are walking in the countryside, presumably people shooting at rabbits.

We have visited Malta and are planning to go again later this year. We will not cancel our holiday but I would like to know more about this and whether or not the EU can override this decision and precious migrating birds can be protected.

Sorry, our posts crossed. I agree, people were overall really friendly and lovely- and I thought the place was wonderful. I fell in love with Valetta too- the nooks and crannies of the harbour, and the old houses with the protuding verandas and artisans working in the basement. Luckily we were there just before they changed all the old Leyland buses- and traveling by bus was such an adventure.

We walked mainly at the end of the afternoons, all around the ancient neolithic sites (must check the period) - we could see all the small shelters all over the place but only understood as sun started to fall, what they were for. As the tourists left, the hunters arrived, dozens of them, with their guns slung over their shoulder- we wanted to sit and watch dusk come to the old settlement, but felt so threatened we had to leave- and heard the gunshot as we left. Same in Gozo. We made sure we left the countryside before sunset after that.

... and of course, the birds and peace ... Hearing the guns all day and often at night made me feel sick- knowing what i meant.

The Police are far too often in cohoots with the gunmen, and will protect them NOT and not prosecute, and that is the problem. Chris Packam and other bird protection volunteers have often been threatened and police refused to act. They got film of the perpetrators and detail of their cars, but nothing is done. And they have been escorted quite roughly off totally public land by police and threatened with arrest.

Bella, this is not personal and I can understand how you feel- but there is no way you will persuade me that hunting birds, including thousands of protected species of song birds and birds of prey- is a minority 'sport' in Malta, and that perpetrators are punished hard (and I think you actually are fully aware of this- and I am sorry as this can't be a comfortable truth for you - again, nothing personal, I hope you realise this).

I appreciate your point of view granjura, although I still have to wonder where you went walking and were surrounded by guys with guns. As I said, we walk regularly in the countryside and have yet to come upon any shooters. You make it sound like the Wild West

I will say this, though, I feel much safer living in Malta than I would back in the UK. The majority of the people here are kind, generous and friendly but unfortunately their reputation has been tarred by a few hotheads who can't let go of the past ie.their 'right' to practice a 'hobby'.

If the 'vast majority' of Maltese are truly against hunting, they could have voted to get it banned. Hence my comment about rednecks and intimidating tactics- many people in rural areas where intimidated in not voting or didn't dare.

I could not enjoy another holiday in Malta- as it is impossible to walk in the countryside without being surrounded with guy with guns shooting at everything. I've witnessed this on our last holiday there- and despite the beautiful scenery and the amazing ancient sites- I just could not enjoy it at all- so I think, to me, that is makes total sense to decide not to go again- but go where I can enjoy the scenery.

So the vote was only to kill quail and turtle dove? Really? And killing everything else is illegal? Hawks and migrating birds are relatively safe? Why are Bill Oddie and Chris Packham and all the others making such a fuss then? Why don't they turn their attentions to France and Spain and Italy where they also blast small birds into an explosion of feathers?

I don't usually like to stick my neck out on controversial subjects, but as I live in Malta I do feel I can comment on this.

I, too, feel it is a bit of an over-reaction to boycott Malta. What about boycotting Spain for the cruel practice of bullfighting, or boycotting the UK because thousands of babies are killed in their mothers' wombs every year. Abortion is illegal in Malta, by the way. Or saying I will never come to the UK because of all the stabbings and murders that take place.

Yes, there is illegal hunting here and the culprits get heavily penalized if caught, but they are in the minority.

Some of the birds shot are, in fact, eaten, and as for being unable to walk in the countryside - that is ridiculous as we regularly walk our dog in the countryside and have never been in the firing line.

I reiterate that I am totally against hunting or cruelty to animals in any shape or form, but I do think some of the comments here are over the top.

Just curious, but why is this on a thread where one can post pictures

I found I had to comment on this because I was struck by the similarity of Parcs comments with the kind of things that were being said by people who didn't want anyone who wasn't Japanese to comment on the appalling slaughter of Dolphins and whales in Taiji, Japan for six months of the year.

They say not all Japanese know about or support the hunts, they try to claim it's culture, they say 'they're only fish' and they say what about you eating animals or hunting foxes or similar. It's all diversionary stuff to try and evade the cruelty behind the killing. And that often goes hand in hand with claiming to be civilised when a civilised person could never support slaughter for sport and two wrongs never make a right.

Unfortunately other than the dreary and probably pointless signing of petitions, the only way to bring about change in our world seems to be through economic means so a boycott is perfectly legitimate as well as a way of bringing the issue to the attention of all those who apparently don't know what is going on. Perhaps it being brought to their attention might then lead to them doing something?

In the case of Japan, only a few Japanese seem to care even when it is brought to their attention and my guess is the same thing would be the case in Malta. Anyone who wants to know more about Japan and dolphin slaughter look up the Sea Shepherd website.

"The unspeakable in pursuit of the uneatable" as Oscar Wilde said.