Researchers have created eggs from the cells of male mice, raising the prospect of male couples having their own children...

Mollygo. "Where do the rights of the child come into this?" Really? To suggest that this "isn't about the child, it's about adult rights" appears to reduce the new human being to a mere side effect, and to both dehumanise and diminish the child as not deserving of any consideration as regards its own emotions within this complex equation. Yes, of course adult rights of parents and surrogates are equally important, but please don't suggest that the child isn't just as deserving of consideration.

VioletSky adopted children are encouraged to meet their birth parents now, not just letterbox contact

Step-children along with step-parents should be aware of the absent/deceased birth parents.

Should this be the same for those born of a surrogate?

To dismiss a child’s birth parents can lead to feelings of abandonment and mental health issues in adulthood.

Weird coincidence, radio 4, currently discussing the new legislation which allows those conceived from donor eggs etc to trace their biological parent, I think I have got this right but I only caught half. They were talking about the lack of support for adults who suddenly find out they may have 10 'siblings' for example. It is something we need to talk about. Apparently the popularity of DNA testing has opened a can of worms for people who had no idea of their biological parents. This obviously wont only impact on donor parents and children, but on those who have had affairs etc.

Frankenstein genetics.

If it gets as far as humans the males will still need a human female to grow the baby inside of her

NanaDana
Nevertheless, the concept leaves me feeling rather uneasy, in particular as regards the emotional implications for the child.

Where do the rights of the child come into this?
This isn’t about the child, it’s about adult rights.
The mental health implications for the surrogate, whether paid or unpaid leave me feeling uneasy too.
I can’t drag out a whole list of “I know somebody who . . .”
But if you’re so desperate for money that you see that as a way of raising funds, a bit like selling a kidney its concerning.

If you’re willing to do it unpaid, then do you want to keep in touch with the parents whether they like it or not?
Do you want the child to be told that you exist?
Does the child have a right to know or a right not to know?

The issue to me smacks of male supremacy.

Rosie51 wondered if there would be similar research into women being enabled to produce sperm, allowing lesbians to reproduce? probably not.

This is a difficult subject to put into words. It feels sinister and leaves me with a cold dread to the future if this new male focused experimentation is allowed to continue...

I am always interested in the laws of some European countries, I think we are 'closer' to Europe in terms of how our society functions than to America for example, so I always pay attention if they have different view to the UK. Obviously this doesnt apply to every single European country and every law within them.

I imagine that the egg from one male partner would then fertilised in vitro with sperm from the other male partner... i.e. what used to be characterised as "a test tube baby". Presumably the fertilised egg would then be implanted into a uterus, so we're looking at a form of surrogacy, which can also be controversial, and is banned even in some European countries, e.g. France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal and Bulgaria. So there are clearly a whole host of complex, ethical issues, which I don't pretend to have an answer to. Nevertheless, the concept leaves me feeling rather uneasy, in particular as regards the emotional implications for the child.

I dont know what that means children have a right to know that they are adopted obviously , well not just a right, its imperative in terms of physical and mental well being. I would be interested in the long term data rather than anecdotal data. We have I think only recently begun to understand the impact being removed from your parents care has on children (and that is unavoidable in many cases) so to remove a child deliberately is I think something that needs talking about. Lots of recent research about the importance of the 'fourth trimester' so I think it's important to talk about.

I think it's my choice what I do with my body.

I think that is every woman's choice and should be.

I think women need safeguarding from those who can and do take advantage but that is a seperate issue.

I think that the fact that human beings are willing to donate bone marrow for strangers and give blood without pay just goes to show that many people are intrinsically good.

I want no part in banning what is good about humanity.

What ledbin couples do is technically a form of surrogacy by implanting the egg of one into the uterus of the other and people I know who have done this have happy children.

The mixed sex couple I know who used a surrogate also have a happy much loved child.

People donate eggs and speem to others and perhaps that causes some issues in terms of the biological relationship and children's rights to know but that's no different to adoption.

I think if we just stop thinking in terms of "adopted child" "step parent" etc, that would have a profoundly positive effect on children

Oh I would abolish paid surrogacy in a heartbeat if it were up to me, I think it's one of those things that people in the future will look back on and say they did what? As for altruistic surrogacy I would be interested in long term studies on the impact on the children, and of course there are the risks to the woman which makes me uneasy, I tend to think the welfare of children should be higher than the feelings or needs of adults. I have reservations about unpaid surrogacy, I am completely against paid surrogacy.

Right

So what do you think is best then?

Ban surrogacy in general and fight to have that rolled out globally?

Or fight for surrogates in other countries to be subject to the same rules?

Yes I know. For very good reasons. Not so in other countries.

In the UK you cannot legally pay a surrogate, you can only cover their reasonable expenses

My friend used a surrogate, they saved for years to do it and now have a much loved little boy. It's not just the rich and famous doing it. And there are people who want to help others have children...

This is just taking their right to choose away wanting it banned

We should invest in advanced technology in order to free women from the pain and degradation of childbirth. There is nothing wonderful or romantic about it. While one half of humanity are condemned to bear the children of all humanity we can never have equality.

I was just looking at countries that allow payment for blood donation for example, only 4 in Europe. Against WHO advice although that seems to be about safety from what I can gather.

Galaxy

I am talking about the inequality between the surrogate and those who pay. Strangely enough it generally isnt the likes of Kim Kardashian who are being surrogates.

Amazing isn't it that we never hear of the rich or famous feeling so altruistic that they offer to be a surrogate.......

maddyone

Rosie51

Children are not a commodity, nor a 'right'. They should never be bought nor sold and that applies at every level.

Do you mean people shouldn’t pay for IVF?

No that's not what I mean. My own recent twin grandchildren were the result of IVF. I do know the heartache behind fertility issues. The multiple private IVF treatments necessary to enable the birth of these babies nearly bankrupted the couple, but that was their choice. Nobody else was involved, they didn't "rent a womb" or endanger a woman's life to carry a pregnancy for them.
I wept for my child's longing for a child, but I could never have condoned the 'purchase' of a child. Adoption is quite different. I still maintain the child is paramount, the parent/s are secondary.

I am talking about the inequality between the surrogate and those who pay. Strangely enough it generally isnt the likes of Kim Kardashian who are being surrogates.

Our gay son adopted his child, our grandson.

Rosie51

Children are not a commodity, nor a 'right'. They should never be bought nor sold and that applies at every level.

Do you mean people shouldn’t pay for IVF?

Galaxy

There is an inequality fundamental to paid surrogacy for example. But am guessing that inequality and misery doesnt count.

There’s an inequality with IVF too. Many people can’t access IVF via the NHS and the sum we paid for our daughter and son in law’s IVF at a top London clinic was eye watering. But worth it for the results.

Good thought Rosie. I agree with you.

Children are not a commodity, nor a 'right'. They should never be bought nor sold and that applies at every level.