Environmental concerns and the move towards Heat Pumps

A three storey Victorian 150 year old house in a conservation area is not going to be able to have either. Many such houses exist
I just keep one room heated in the winter and my body is used to it
I couldn’t afford either but even if I could via a scheme I wouldn’t be allowed to

Technically a heat pump is an airconditioner in reverse so small units are not a problem, they are circulating warm instead of cool air as a fan heater would.
Many small flats and apartments that are well insulated are all electric, thats the key, insulation, whatever system you have it will save a lot.

Not an option for me as I live in a terrace with a tiny garden. I’m switching to electric (hot water cylinder with ceramic core rads) because I have an invisible leak in my gas CH pipes and would have to rip my house apart to find it. As I only have the heating on in a couple of rooms, the extra cost of running it won’t break the bank. I’d like to know what the government proposes for the millions of older properties that can’t switch to a heat pump.

Our friends that have had heat pumps fitted by the council, who also fitted insulation and larger radiators, They were old cottages 1860 vintage, they have seen an improvement and a good saving, but the previous heating was oil. The heatpump is vastly more efficient and the cost was quite low because of the council subsidy.

Heat pumps are probably fine for new houses but Milliband's one size fits all approach won't work with old houses, solid walls, houses with no space for a tank and no outside space for the pump box, flats, etc., and is problematical for listed buildings.

We have just looked into this and decided against it:

It is far more expensive than we thought

The stress of the installation including losing a wardrobe to put the water cylinder in

The lack of savings - very little reduction in fuel costs, and no increase in usability - would still have to wait 2-3 minutes to get hot water to the tap.

Rough calculation we wouldn’t get our money back in 10 years

woodenspoon

People we know who have heat pumps are either delighted with them or others claim there’s are always going wrong. I guess like everything it depends on the brand.

With ours we were in the first category for the first twelve years, then the second for the last three years of its life.

To be honest, although in our case the energy saving was great, part of that saving is due to the extra insulation that was put in prior to installation of the heating system, and I'm not sure the overall saving was very big once the cost of instalation, annual servicing and repair bills are taken into account.

In our case, we rent and didn't have to pay for any of those 'extras' ourselves, but for those who do, it is questionable whether it is worth doing simply to save money.
As for whether heat pumps are less damaging to the environment than the alternative forms of heating, I have no idea. There are so many factors to take into account, and each type of heating will have its own positives and negatives.

Homestead62

I will not be having a Heat Pump, they are no use in Scotland as it gets so cold here and the size of them and the noise! I have good relationships with my neighbours and want to keep it that way. Why are they being forced upon us, when our own Houses of Parliament refused them? Due to the noise I may add. Someone is getting very rich and my guess is Elon Musk because if the Heat Pump is made by Tesla, it's his company.

You're misinformed about their efficiency in cold climates. I know many people with successful heatpumps in the Highlands of Scotland and none find them noisy. My son's is completely inaudible inside the house. Standing beside it (outside) one hears only a very low hum, barely noticeable, like standing beside the big fridge freezer in his kitchen. It's running the underfloor heating system in a large house ( 5 beds 3 baths).

navien.co.uk/what-the-uk-can-learn-from-norways-heat-pump-success/

"Norway has emerged as the leader in heat pump adoption, with Norway has emerged as the leader in heat pump adoption, with *more than two-thirds of households equipped with a heat pump, more than anywhere else in the world. Sweden and Finland follow closely, demonstrating that widespread adoption is achievable in northern climates., more than anywhere else in the world. Sweden and Finland follow closely, demonstrating that widespread adoption is achievable in northern climates."

Don’t forget the potential for being charged for your heat pump in the future.
Remember “buy an EV you can drive it for free” . . . Until they discovered the loss in revenue.

I saw a Which article recently in which their expert decided not to install a heat pump although she approves of them in principle. She cited reasons: old terraced house, lack of room for big water cylinder, increased radiator sizes difficult to fit in, proximity outdoors of noise from pump to neighbours, and general disruption.

I agree and add exra cost of insulation for my solid walls and the high overall cost compared with a new gas boiler ( even after the grant).

Milliband should think again.

Around 200 trillion cubic metres worldwide in fact.

It's not true the gas is going to run out. There are still substantial reserves underground, T he problem is Millibandcwants us all to install expensive heat pumps and associated kit but Reeves won't pay for it,

Homestead62

I will not be having a Heat Pump, they are no use in Scotland as it gets so cold here and the size of them and the noise! I have good relationships with my neighbours and want to keep it that way. Why are they being forced upon us, when our own Houses of Parliament refused them? Due to the noise I may add. Someone is getting very rich and my guess is Elon Musk because if the Heat Pump is made by Tesla, it's his company.

Nobody is forcing them on us. I know lots of people in rural Highlands an islans ( no mains gas, oil an electricity very expensive) who have HP's an love them. inclu ing my son. His heats a large rural house via the underfloor heating. No noise.
The interior gubbins do take a lot of space but he has lots, so its gubbins are not even in the main house. He got a huge grant to install it, also ha solar panels on roof, very low bills.

If I have any criticism of his system its that the house is often hotter than I like

If its not going to be optional how do they. (Milliband, etc.) expect people to pay the outrageous price?

2 friends of ours have had Heat Pumps installed by the council, they own their own homes but are low income, as part of the job they installed extra radiators and insulation, so far it seems to be working well.

We had a couple of companies in to give us quotes for solar panels and a heat pump…….the cost was eye watering!

Our roof is in great condition having only been replaced three years ago but one of the companies decided it was a great idea to position the solar panels on the north facing aspect which was not acceptable and we told them so. He said the south facing aspect was damaged - it wasn’t! When we decided to not proceed with it one of the reps was very very hostile towards us and said we needed to pay for the quote- I cut the call and we never heard from him again.
Do your research and be mindful of the cowboys if you are serious about solar panels etc

Friends of ours had a heat pump and solar panels fitted when they moved last year (they had a grant), they live in a property of a similar size to us , when I asked recently how much their energy bill was over the winter, the amount she said was not a lot less that what I pay for Gas & Electric. Although she did say she sells energy back to the national grid. Not sure if it is worth the extra outlay. If she said she is paying 50% less but it was more like 5%.

If the government were serious about heat pumps they would increase the grant, pressure manufacturers to reduce prices, increase training for installers, commission work on how to make them work in older properties, exempt listed homes and those in conservation areas from planning controls relevant to heating, reduce the cost of electricity for heat pumps and publish independent data on their efficiency. At age 78 there I no way I can amortise the capital cost in my lifetime.

Barleyfields

We have a heat pump which was installed, with underfloor heating, when the house was built. We are pleased with it. However, you can’t just stick one on an outside wall of just any property and connect it to an existing radiator system. Larger pipes and radiators may well be needed and that means a huge amount of upheaval. And of course the National Grid has to be able to cope with the extra demand.

Not only that, but I have no idea where heat pumps would be placed on some properties, for instance small terraced houses with just a back yard. They might not be permitted at all on some listed buildings.

The government isn’t remotely interested in whether people can afford to have a heat pump installed and pay for all the consequent making good, even with a grant. Milliband is just on a headlong rush to achieve net zero, come what may. It’s a disaster, just like the penalties imposed on car manufacturers if they don’t produce a given number of EVs each year, and having to stop selling new petrol and diesel cars in 2030. I despair.

Barleyfields 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
I agree with all you say on this subject, we’re a small Victorian terraced house with a yard.Milliband needs to be stopped asap.

What would happen with flats. Would they have to have them in windows, like air conditioning units?. What affect would 10 or 20 of them in close proximity have on air temperature, not to mention combined noise.

Air source heat pumps don’t take up much space but they are very ugly. Ours is well screened from view with shrubs. However they can’t simply be bolted on to any old radiators and the house needs to be very well insulated in order to properly benefit.

I live in a draughty Edwardian mid-terrace with a tiny garden and currently have a very efficient combi boiler.
When it comes to the end of its life (maybe in 5 years,) I’ll be replacing it with another combi because a heat pump just isn’t an option in my type of property.
Hopefully that’ll see me out but if I was younger, I’d be concerned. The government doesn’t seem to be doing much to reassure people in small old houses with even smaller gardens how they’re going to be able to heat their homes without a heat pump.

Do you mean air source heat pumps? You need a fair amount of land for a ground source one. We have an air source pump and are all electric. The house is very well insulated and always warm. However our house is part single storey, part two. I suspect the spec for the heating in your friend’s house wasn’t properly calculated.

My husband was in hundreds of houses before his stroke who had ground source heat pumps and never met a family who were totally happy with them.

My friend moved into her brand new house last Christmas. It has this type of heating as all new houses have to. It is a large 5 bed house over 3 storeys and has everything eco so it SHOULD work perfectly but it doesn’t. A local builder built it to her spec. She says if she could she would rip it out and have oil again because it is never warm enough.

A very expensive system that doesn’t keep the house warm enough.

Interestingly too, M0nica, if you are having new utilities installed, gas and water are deemed to be essential so the cost of installation is subsidised by the Government. Electricity is not so the cost of anything to do with installation is sky high. I was astonished.