Please GNHQ ... would you consider letting *EllanVannin* come back to this site?

A thought occurred to me, does Ellan actually want to be reinstated? She might be peed off with the lot of us.

Caleo

Chewbacca, I hope that the moderator or the website owner will tell us what the rules are.

surely the 'rules' are the guidelines for goodness sake.

Possibly the following rule is the problem:

"We hope you will find the vast majority of Gransnet discussions genuinely informative, supportive and friendly (even when we all disagree with each other!)"

But disagreement with an idea always implies lack of support for it!

One sort of discussion is objective and explicit , For this sort of discussion heated arguments are appropriate , and a main function of a mod may be to steer the arguments towards the original proposition or question. When important ideas that are close to her heart are being discussed it's always a risk that a Gran will feel unhappy or even insulted if her ideas are unpopular or disputed. Except for illegal material these objective discussions should be uncensored. There is a problem with labelling these psychologically risky , and I wonder if Gransnet's philosophy can cope with debates on certain topics such as religion or politics.

Then there is the sort of discussion on Gransnet that is purely for moral support and kindly advice for someone having a bad time . These discussions that I have read are above reproach as to their helpfulness, kindness, and tactfulness, and are very well moderated by the participators themselves.

The remaining sort of discussion on Gransnet, practical matters, hardly needs any moderating. Gransnet can be truly informative because older people have such a slot of experience in practical matters of all sorts.

It is a moveable feast though. What is acceptable now may well not be in 10 years time . In fact I would say it is almost certain. If everything we don’t agree with just now is deleted and suppressed that sends out rather a bad message in itself. Far better that people argue against and point out the ‘offence’ rather than just delete the offender. Within obvious reason, of course. I feel we are becoming more and more prescriptive and how dare we complain about other countries and suppression/repression when we are absolutely no different.

Chewbacca, I hope that the moderator or the website owner will tell us what the rules are.

Another vote for Ellan’s return.

Apologies that should have been practise.

I feel that the only way to change someone’s views or opinions is to put yourselves in their shoes and find out why they feel that way. No one ever changed their opinions by being shouted at or treated with contempt. Once you understand why someone thinks the way they do you can gently present facts and a different way of thinking. It does, of course, need a willingness to listen from both sides.
Telling them they are an awful person just results in more entrenched opinions.
It can be very difficult to do and I’m the first to admit I don’t always get it right but I do try and I think am getting better at it the more I practice.

trisher

I do think the idea that because you are older you can't have progressive views is something that needs stamping on. Age is no excuse for unacceptable views. Sometimes you might be a little bit behind the times but racism, homoophobia and sexism aren't a product of age, and no one should be permitted to say things just because they are old.

Of course it is possible to be older and progressive. But there is the stereotype, isn't there? Both examples, of progressive POV and also regressive POV are evident in the forums.

My POV is that bigotry is never acceptable. But it happens. And when it isn't reported, GNHQ aren't aware of it going on (there are thousands of posts in the forums everyday, they can't see them all). But if they are aware, well... brand image must be maintained.

I would agree with you Caleo but EllanVannin, like another poster, didn't get temporary suspension, just an immediate ban. One is back. EllanVannin isn't. Why one and not the other?

Chewbacca, I think and feel a temporary suspension is adequate as a deterrent.

Before putting the deterrent into action it would be rude and unkind to omit an explanation and advice. One hopes this was done in the case of EV and all posters who havecontravened the rules.

If a poster is actually posting illegal material then that poster should be both excluded and receive an explanation and warning.

trisher

I do think the idea that because you are older you can't have progressive views is something that needs stamping on. Age is no excuse for unacceptable views. Sometimes you might be a little bit behind the times but racism, homoophobia and sexism aren't a product of age, and no one should be permitted to say things just because they are old.

I quite agree.
Some of my Dad's comments are a product of his upbringing. He'll say he knows it's wrong, but he can't help some of the thoughts that come into his mind though most of the time he knows better than to say them out loud. If he does speak out of turn we certainly put him straight.

rules are rules whatever the 'club'

Well, yes, that's very true, I suppose. But what if those "rules" aren't being enforced fairly? What if, for example; someone is banned for a very obvious and repetitive breach of those rules but then is allowed back? And what if a banned poster doesn't actually know which of the "rules" they breached and so doesn't know where or how they transgressed? And if one banned poster is allowed back, why can't others be? If we're going to have "rules", they either apply to everyone or no one. Which is it?

Sorry about the duplicate

Gransnet has to be financially viable. I expect the moderators are aware of a correlation between older women who are computer literate, and material that that would be unpopular with that demographic section.

It is unlikely that anything actually illegal has been posted to Gransnet.

It is a little odd that the moderator has not been explicit as to content and lexicon.

Gransnet has to stay solvent. If the readership dwindles due to unpopular opinions the profits from advertising are less. I daresay the owners of the website (?Mumsnet) are aware of a correlation between older women and material that is unpopular with older women.

It is odd that the management has not seen fit to be more explicit as to the content and the lexicon it will disallow.

I don''t recall the poster in quesstion. I don't think appealing against something will make any difference, life goes on after all. rules are rules whatever the 'club'

trisher

I do think the idea that because you are older you can't have progressive views is something that needs stamping on. Age is no excuse for unacceptable views. Sometimes you might be a little bit behind the times but racism, homoophobia and sexism aren't a product of age, and no one should be permitted to say things just because they are old.

Hear, hear.

This comment of course will be shouted down because those accusing GNHQ of being narrow minded are steadfast in their righteous views themselves.

Calistemon, there is a lovely song about the island with the words 'My own dear Ellan Vannin with its green hills by the sea.' The Glasgow Phoenix Choir had a gramophone long playing record that included the song.

I agree, trisher, but I think that sometimes it is more a matter of vocabulary or choice of expression than actual views that can cause offence. Older people may have been brought up with terminology that is different from today's, and if they have not been exposed to more current terms they can be inadvertently offensive without having offensive views.

I know it's not an excuse, but it's maybe understandable, and I can't see the advantage in banning someone for using terms that they don't realise are 'wrong'.

Well put BlueBelle, that’s my opinion too.

And mine.

I do think the idea that because you are older you can't have progressive views is something that needs stamping on. Age is no excuse for unacceptable views. Sometimes you might be a little bit behind the times but racism, homoophobia and sexism aren't a product of age, and no one should be permitted to say things just because they are old.

Josianne

^I don’t agree that to carry on chatting aimlessly is rude nor is it used to derail. I personally have done so on this thread to try to keep it calm so that it wasn’t deleted if it became heated^
as several others do, myself included, to diffuse heated situations. Though I do believe there are those who enjoy confrontations.
I think it was once pointed out to me that my old GN name had been confused with EllanVannin. I couldn't see any real resemblance, but just to say I changed it a while back.

I do remember someone asking EllanVannin if she had links to the Isle of Man as Ellan Vannin is the Manx name for that island.

LauraNorderr

Well put BlueBelle, that’s my opinion too.

And mine.

I will add my vote to her reinstatement. If only on the basis that others have been able to some back.