I Never Realised The Olympics Is This Year, Sometime.

* being

Kate1949

The casual way she whips the horse tells me that this is her usual regime. You can also hear foul language (I'm not sure if this is her directing it to the horse or someone else) and there is someone laughing whilst watching.

tbh I doubt it, if it is I expect more videos to appear, it's common practice to video lessons, especially if it's an expensive lesson. I bought a GoPro especially to video my lessons as I frequently went to them on my own. I am definitely not defending anything I saw on the video, it was disgusting, I have never ever seen any trainer use a whip like that because it is totally counter productive. Horses need to accept correctly used whips in training both in hand, they should never be used to inflict fear or pain.

in hand and ridden.

So she just did it on this occasion? I don't believe that for one minute. And no, I don't know anything about horses or the training of them but I know cruelty when I see it.

Kate49 I am responding to the phrase you used "usual regime" I am not saying she has only done it on this occasion because I don't know. I have not said it's not cruel or defended her in any way and you can, of course, believe what you wish. However, I do know rather a lot about horses, I know quite a lot about training and I actually know a lot of people in the world of dressage. It's a very small world, full of gossip and I have never heard anyone suggest that CDJ has a training regime that is cruel but I have been told that she's not a good trainer because she struggles to understand why people without her natural ability can't ride like she does.
I am really shocked by the video, it's the person videoing who is laughing and I don't see anything to laugh about. I have never ever seen anyone use a whip like that and I have had hours of training and watched 100's of lessons over the years. Never, ever!

Likewise, foxie48. I have seen horses being lunged many times - and lunged them myself - but I have never seen a lunge whip used like that. I also get where you are coming from re the coaching/trainer side of it - if you are naturally good at something, it can be very difficult to explain to others how to do it (not that I am excusing for one minute what Dujardin did in the video). I think I said say in another comment that someone who is an expert in their field doesn't necessarily make for a good coach or teacher. Take football, for example - there are many world-class players who haven't made good coaches, and many average players who make excellent ones.

Well yes foxie you know more about it than I do and I'm sure you are correct. As I said, I am not particularly an animal lover - I have got into a few spats because I don't like dogs. However there is a difference between not liking and seeing one being hurt. This video really upset me, seeing that beautiful creature being mistreated by someone who is taking glory for her achievements.

Katie49 it has really upset me too, I could hardly believe what I saw, added to this I've been anticipating going to the Olympics to watch the dressage for over a year and tbh it's really floored me. I cannot defend anything in the video but I will defend the sport of dressage. The sport is not cruel to horses but there are cruel people who own horses.
I have watched CDJ ride on numerous occasions, she always rides very "hot" reactive horses but they seem very relaxed even in the biggest most atmospheric situations. I find it hard to believe that she attains that degree of harmony and trust by cruel methods and tbh I think the dressage world would know, she's been top of the game for well over a decade.
I do know that prior to having her daughter she was not in a good place, I'm inclined to believe that the video is not representative of how she treats horses but it is not an excuse for that behaviour. I'm aware that people can lose their temper but when you are training horses, you cannot do that so there are times when you just have to walk away and leave the training for another day!

But if someone had a camera to film her, they must have had a reason for that. Were they intending to film her training methods and got this by accident? or had they taken the camera in to the session because the training using the whip in this way was normal.

Why did the person who filmed the incident not release it immediately it was taken? Was it because at the time it was accepted as being a normal way to train a horse and it was only recently they realised they could weaponise it to eliminate a top rider in another team that would give their team a better chance of winning.

There are so many questions about this film. Incuding why it was released when it was, who filmed it and if this training was so far away from what is normal for training all horses in this discipline, it was not released when made.

I think this whole sector of this equestrian discipline and the training methods used are deeply suspect and Charlotte Dujardin was unfortunate to be the one caught using methods that are actually endemic in this sport and in general use by all riders of all nations but not admitted to.

Oh foxie48, we can understand how upset you must be. I hope you can somehow manage to watch the dressage in Versailles without this incident spoiling your trip.

I am guessing that the fact that the girl was being taught in the lesson, which was apparently paid for by her sponsor, so it would seem quite likely that someone was filming it to show to the sponsor, maybe?

Joseann

Oh foxie48, we can understand how upset you must be. I hope you can somehow manage to watch the dressage in Versailles without this incident spoiling your trip.

Thank you.

foxie48

Katie49 it has really upset me too, I could hardly believe what I saw, added to this I've been anticipating going to the Olympics to watch the dressage for over a year and tbh it's really floored me. I cannot defend anything in the video but I will defend the sport of dressage. The sport is not cruel to horses but there are cruel people who own horses.
I have watched CDJ ride on numerous occasions, she always rides very "hot" reactive horses but they seem very relaxed even in the biggest most atmospheric situations. I find it hard to believe that she attains that degree of harmony and trust by cruel methods and tbh I think the dressage world would know, she's been top of the game for well over a decade.
I do know that prior to having her daughter she was not in a good place, I'm inclined to believe that the video is not representative of how she treats horses but it is not an excuse for that behaviour. I'm aware that people can lose their temper but when you are training horses, you cannot do that so there are times when you just have to walk away and leave the training for another day!

That’s what I heard. I think she’d gone through a relationship break up at the time? She probably had to teach to finance herself, something that doesn’t come naturally to her. People tend to think that anyone involved in equestrian sport is from a wealthy background and is rich but that isn’t the case. I know I’m probably in a sort of denial about all this but I still don’t think she could achieve what she has without a love and empathy for horses. I did notice that the horse in the video was heavily bandaged but assume that’s because dressage does put a lot of strain on the tendons ( or so I was once told).

I think she has previously been in some kind of trouble when a horse of hers had blood on its flanks.

Does anybody else find the Kevin the carrot Olympic advert amusing !
It tickles me everything I see it...but then I'm easily amused 🤣

No! I hated that thing when it was on at Christmas, now it's even worse! Down with the carrot!!

Oh poor harmless Kevin, he makes me smile with its pure daftness 🙂

I’ve seen that recorded MissA
I’ve loved watching dressage. Just learning to ride, to encourage your horse over a small jump, or a stream out hacking feels like such an achievement that you really understand how skilful these riders are, how well schooled their horses are

Sadly, like most things "these days" everything is taken to extremes.

I still maintain that being cruel to an animal is inexcusable, and only something certain types of people can do.

Particularly sustained, cruelty.

I've always enjoyed the puissance (?) Pardon my French!

I won't be watching it any more now.

More bad news.

From The Telegraph just now:

“ The Paris Olympics have been hit by fresh claims of equine abuse, with show jumping medal contender Max Kuehner of Austria subject to criminal proceedings in Germany for allegedly hitting his horse’s legs with a bar to make it jump higher.

Kuehner, the world No 3 in jumping, stands accused by the Munich II public prosecutor’s office of violating the German Animal Welfare Act by engaging in “active bar jumping” or “barring”. The technique is more commonly known as “rapping”, where a pole is used to smack the horse’s legs over a practice jump, forcing it to lift. It has been banned in Germany since May 2023.

According to the Austrian Equestrian Federation, Kuehner, 50, who is scheduled to compete in Versailles in both the individual and team jumping competitions, denies wrongdoing. “We can confirm, based on everything we have observed during the years of working with Max, that the way his horses are kept, trained and presented is of the highest quality,” the governing body told German newspaper Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung.

“Due to his impeccable attitude towards his horse as a sports partner, there is no reason whatsoever to assume that he uses methods in training that are contrary to animal welfare, or that he has used them in the past”.

It also insisted that Kuehner would participate at the Olympics as planned.

Ingmar De Vos, president of the FEI, equestrianism’s global governing body, said in Paris that the Austrian federation had been asked to provide further information.

Rider has faced allegations of animal cruelty before
Kuehner, who runs a tournament and training stable in the Bavarian town of Starnberg, has previously competed in Nations Cups with the Germany team but switched to representing the Alpine nation in 2015 “for sporting reasons”, a team spokesperson said.

Kuehner has faced allegations of animal cruelty before, in 2008. In an anonymous letter, the show jumper was accused of using a wire to make his horse jump more carefully. While the Bavarian Riding and Driving Association criticised the training method used by Kuehner, the disciplinary commission was unable to establish behaviour that contravened animal welfare laws. The case was discontinued with a ruling that was described as “minor guilt”. ”

That’s another serious blow urmstongran. I was looking forward to equestrian events but feel distressed to learn about such abuse.
I know more about training and caring for dogs. Cruelty went out years ago as trainers realised dogs work better in a trusting relationship.

Unfortunately another video has come to light from 2016 where Charlotte can be heard calling a horse a b***h.

I know nothing about horses, but I’m guessing they are born with the desire and ability to run and jump?

Are they born with the same instincts to do dressage moves without any training? Serious question please.

Kate1949

Unfortunately another video has come to light from 2016 where Charlotte can be heard calling a horse a b***h.

Doesn't everybody at some time or another use a pejorative word, or several to describe alnost everyone? It doesn't follow that that person will then attack that person.

I am not given to abusing people but I have, in times of total exasperation I have been known to call even my nearest and dearest, 'idiots' or something similar. never has this led me to hit anyone.

However, I say this not to exonerate in any way CD from what she is accused of. I am afraid, I am always suspicious of people called out for something (with evidence) as in this case, when they claim that the recorded event is a moment's aberation. It rarely is.

All I am saying that using a pejorative word to describe an animal or person, is in no way an indication that that person may be violent or in other wods 'So what'