I Never Realised The Olympics Is This Year, Sometime.

Monica I didn't infer that because she called a horse that name that she would inevitably go on to beat a horse. Not at all. I just said that a video had come to light.

Personally, I have never used that horrible word. Yes of course people frustrate me. I'm not sure it's appropriate to call a horse a b***h because it won't do what you want it to do in order to gain glory. It strikes me that this lady doesn't like horses at all.

Got to agree with you there, M0nica. I will repeat that I am in no way condoning anything Charlotte Dujardin has done, but if I had a £ for every time I've said something like that about someone, I'd be a very rich woman indeed.

Yes of course. People can be incredibly annoying. Can a horse be annoying?

NotAGran55

I know nothing about horses, but I’m guessing they are born with the desire and ability to run and jump?

Are they born with the same instincts to do dressage moves without any training? Serious question please.

Everything the dressage training is meant to achieve is based on moves that horses can do naturally. As has been explained a number of times the origins of dressage lie in training horses both to be more easily manoeuvrable in battle, and to be a living 'weapon'. It dates back to at least the ancient greeks.

Of course the movements are, in some cases, exaggerated or held for longer than they would be in the wild, but nobody could force a horse's body to do the impossible...

They can do surprising things, though. Have you ever seen a horse scratching its ear with its hind foot? (no, that's not a dressage move😆)

In 2012, as a specialist Games Maker at the Gymnastics I had some really wonderful times and can so well remember the incredible spirit that was around London during those Games, one of peace, internationalism and hope. Everyone was so happy and pleasant and friendly. Seems almost like a dreamlike quality now.

Our stay in London during the Olympics was one of our best breaks ever, and a memory we treasure. The atmosphere was just incredible.

We love the games (DH worked at Munich as a student) but don’t normally watch the opening ceremonies. We were at home about to go out when we just caught the start of it and ended up watching the lot. It was so obvious from the outset that Danny Boyle had pulled off something very different. It was amazing!

Thank you for being a Games Maker, Franbern. You and others like you made 2012 very special. I’m looking forward to this year’s games, but they have a lot to live up to.

Kate1949

Yes of course. People can be incredibly annoying. Can a horse be annoying?

Any animal can, I guess. It used to be somewhat annoying, for example, when I had to chase my daughter's pony up and down acres of field if she decided that she didn't want to come in, or when we'd spent ages grooming her, only for her to roll in the muddiest part of the field the minute she was turned out, or when the dosgs decided to roll in something very smell, but I never lost my temper with them over it. I can only speak for myself, but I have endless amounts of patience when it comes to animals - far less so when it comes to humans.

Thanks MaizieD

Just to clarify, if a horse didn’t have any training at all, could it automatically perform some of moves?

Dressage is brutal. And yes Maizie, I do know a lot about horses, even more about dressage which my ex brother in law used to compete in.

It's hideous out dated cruel and disgusting.

Instead of looking at it through rose coloured glasses, do some research. Look what was in the Danish documentary. See images of horses that are wounded as a result.

It's cruel and hopefully this will be the beginning of the end

Oh dear, I hope no one has any vidoes of me swearing when a horse has trodden on my foot, or when they've put in a stop or a buck and I've flown over their head. The language of the horse world can be pretty "ripe" but it doesn't mean we follow up a swear word with any violence.
All my horses knew quite a few words linked to aids, so much so that in lessons my trainer used code words or the horse would respond to her instructions to me rather than wait for me to give the aid. Did they understand the f word, I'm afraid they probably did and thought I was cursing myself for not giving a clear aid and usually I was. The advent of coaching headsets meant my trainer could hear every word muttered under my breath and I could hear hers, it led to some hilarious moments.
Training big fit athletic horses with a mind of their own is challenging, they can do very unexpected things very quickly as I found to my cost in January, ending up in hospital for two weeks with broken bones, a pneumothorax and three pints of internal blood loss. fwiw I did nothing wrong and it was completely out of character for the horse, just one of life's mysteries but he nearly killed me! I can forgive any horse person for swearing as anything to do with horses is potentially. dangerous and because horses are flight animals they are quick to react, that's why we need them to work with us and trust us.

MaizieD I agree with your posts.

It is impossible to get any horse to do something it has made up its mind not to.

To get back to the Olympics in general which is what the thread started is about.

There have been several malicious attacks on the fast rail infrastructure around Paris this morning, not a great start.

SKY news are reporting just now that a French Airport close to the Swiss Border has closed and all passengers and staff evacuated.

They really are having a nightmare of a day!

GrannyGravy13

MaizieD I agree with your posts.

It is impossible to get any horse to do something it has made up its mind not to.

So true but if you can build up trust and they accept you as their leader (they are herd animals) they will do as you ask. I've always been so impressed watching CDJ ride at big occasions, the atmosphere can be electric, she'd come into a noisy bright arena and her horses were always calm. She'd finish a test on Valegro and just drop the reins whilst the crowd clapped and cheered and he seemed to love every minute of the performance. You just don't get that level of trust if you are cruel to your horse

I'm watching the news as I'm flying into CDG Monday lunchtime and then taking the train into Paris and out again to my accommodation nearer to Versailles. Fingers crossed it will be better by then.

foxie48 👍

I see. So horses are annoying if they don't do what people want them to do?

GrannyGravy13

To get back to the Olympics in general which is what the thread started is about.

There have been several malicious attacks on the fast rail infrastructure around Paris this morning, not a great start.

It’s causing a lot of disruption, and has been described as a well-coordinated attack. It seems odd that nobody’s claiming responsibility.

Kate1949

I see. So horses are annoying if they don't do what people want them to do?

I think you're twisting my words, deliberately or not. To put it another way, imagine you had spent hours cleaning your house, only for your child to come in and tramp all over your lovely clean floors with their muddy shoes. Would that not be annoying? It would certainly annoy me. People annoy me every single day, far more than any animal ever would. You can be annoyed by something or someone without retaliating.

Kate1949

I see. So horses are annoying if they don't do what people want them to do?

No Kate1949 not annoying, potentially very dangerous especially when they are being handled on the ground.

Well like I said, I know nothing about horses, some of you obviously do. I hope that horse was ok.

NotAGran55

Thanks MaizieD

Just to clarify, if a horse didn’t have any training at all, could it automatically perform some of moves?

Bump, as I meant the question for anyone
who knows about dressage, not just Maizie.

NotAGran55

NotAGran55

Thanks MaizieD

Just to clarify, if a horse didn’t have any training at all, could it automatically perform some of moves?

Bump, as I meant the question for anyone
who knows about dressage, not just Maizie.

Not as refined but yes.

NotAGran55

NotAGran55

Thanks MaizieD

Just to clarify, if a horse didn’t have any training at all, could it automatically perform some of moves?

Bump, as I meant the question for anyone
who knows about dressage, not just Maizie.

Yes there's nothing really that they wouldn't do in a field, possibly half pass, which is where they move sideways in either canter or trot but that's really easy to teach, all of my horses have done that and I competed at a relatively low level compared to Grand Prix. Piaffe and passage is also natural to them, flying changes are done by foals but teaching them to do tempis when they change on every stride or two's etc is not something they would normally do in a field but actually most horses love doing changes and find it quite exciting.
The thing that is different is doing these movements carrying a rider and at proscribed points in a test. Horses will normally pull themselves using the front as their engine but ridden horses need to learn to push themselves from the hindquarters to carry a rider safely, this develops muscles in their back which helps to protect them against injury and the stronger they get the better they will be able to perform the moves with a rider on board. I can tell by looking at a horse's musculature whether the horse is being ridden correctly or not and I'm afraid a lot of amateur riders don't ride very well. If there are welfare issues that need addressing I'd look first at leisure riders, too many have ill fitting tack, fat unfit horses and neglect the basics like vaccinations, teeth and good basic care.
Lots of trainers will teach the horse in hand first and that also helps to keep the horse strong and supple. That's one of the uses of schooling whips, it is used to replicate the leg of the rider or to ask the horse to move it's body in a certain way. Horses are "into pressure" animals and training uses that as we want to be able to use quick light aids so the merest touch of the leg gets a reaction. That's why using spurs or whips or the leg for that matter in a harsh way is so counter intuitive and is completely the opposite of what you want in your relationship with your horse.
Horses tend to be bred for certain jobs, so dressage horses usually have more extravagant movement (too much sometimes for long term soundness), they need flexible joints but most of all they need to be trainable and want to do the job. Trainability and the desire to work with the rider is absolutely essential, I don't think you can force a horse to anything well if it doesn't want to. It is designed to conserve energy for flight but dressage requires a high level of fitness and is energy sapping (for both horse and rider) and once you are in the competition arena, if your horse isn't completely on your side and with you, you can do little about it.
As you can tell, I am passionate about horses and the sport!

foxie48 very eloquently described 👍

foxie48

Oh dear, I hope no one has any vidoes of me swearing when a horse has trodden on my foot, or when they've put in a stop or a buck and I've flown over their head. The language of the horse world can be pretty "ripe" but it doesn't mean we follow up a swear word with any violence.
All my horses knew quite a few words linked to aids, so much so that in lessons my trainer used code words or the horse would respond to her instructions to me rather than wait for me to give the aid. Did they understand the f word, I'm afraid they probably did and thought I was cursing myself for not giving a clear aid and usually I was. The advent of coaching headsets meant my trainer could hear every word muttered under my breath and I could hear hers, it led to some hilarious moments.
Training big fit athletic horses with a mind of their own is challenging, they can do very unexpected things very quickly as I found to my cost in January, ending up in hospital for two weeks with broken bones, a pneumothorax and three pints of internal blood loss. fwiw I did nothing wrong and it was completely out of character for the horse, just one of life's mysteries but he nearly killed me! I can forgive any horse person for swearing as anything to do with horses is potentially. dangerous and because horses are flight animals they are quick to react, that's why we need them to work with us and trust us.

Have you seen the videos of Endo the Blind on Facebook who responds totally to his owners words? The relationship between human and horse is quite amazing especially when their senses are far better than ours and they know if you’re lacking in confidence. At the same time a bolshie horse can become a complete pussycat when it’s with someone disabled or a small child. Look at the work Michael Morpurgo does with disadvantaged children. As with our relationship with dogs it’s a symbiotic relationship that goes back centuries.