I Never Realised The Olympics Is This Year, Sometime.

Kate1949

Yes of course. People can be incredibly annoying. Can a horse be annoying?

Any animal can, I guess. It used to be somewhat annoying, for example, when I had to chase my daughter's pony up and down acres of field if she decided that she didn't want to come in, or when we'd spent ages grooming her, only for her to roll in the muddiest part of the field the minute she was turned out, or when the dosgs decided to roll in something very smell, but I never lost my temper with them over it. I can only speak for myself, but I have endless amounts of patience when it comes to animals - far less so when it comes to humans.

In 2012, as a specialist Games Maker at the Gymnastics I had some really wonderful times and can so well remember the incredible spirit that was around London during those Games, one of peace, internationalism and hope. Everyone was so happy and pleasant and friendly. Seems almost like a dreamlike quality now.

Our stay in London during the Olympics was one of our best breaks ever, and a memory we treasure. The atmosphere was just incredible.

We love the games (DH worked at Munich as a student) but don’t normally watch the opening ceremonies. We were at home about to go out when we just caught the start of it and ended up watching the lot. It was so obvious from the outset that Danny Boyle had pulled off something very different. It was amazing!

Thank you for being a Games Maker, Franbern. You and others like you made 2012 very special. I’m looking forward to this year’s games, but they have a lot to live up to.

NotAGran55

I know nothing about horses, but I’m guessing they are born with the desire and ability to run and jump?

Are they born with the same instincts to do dressage moves without any training? Serious question please.

Everything the dressage training is meant to achieve is based on moves that horses can do naturally. As has been explained a number of times the origins of dressage lie in training horses both to be more easily manoeuvrable in battle, and to be a living 'weapon'. It dates back to at least the ancient greeks.

Of course the movements are, in some cases, exaggerated or held for longer than they would be in the wild, but nobody could force a horse's body to do the impossible...

They can do surprising things, though. Have you ever seen a horse scratching its ear with its hind foot? (no, that's not a dressage move😆)

Yes of course. People can be incredibly annoying. Can a horse be annoying?

Got to agree with you there, M0nica. I will repeat that I am in no way condoning anything Charlotte Dujardin has done, but if I had a £ for every time I've said something like that about someone, I'd be a very rich woman indeed.

Monica I didn't infer that because she called a horse that name that she would inevitably go on to beat a horse. Not at all. I just said that a video had come to light.

Personally, I have never used that horrible word. Yes of course people frustrate me. I'm not sure it's appropriate to call a horse a b***h because it won't do what you want it to do in order to gain glory. It strikes me that this lady doesn't like horses at all.

Kate1949

Unfortunately another video has come to light from 2016 where Charlotte can be heard calling a horse a b***h.

Doesn't everybody at some time or another use a pejorative word, or several to describe alnost everyone? It doesn't follow that that person will then attack that person.

I am not given to abusing people but I have, in times of total exasperation I have been known to call even my nearest and dearest, 'idiots' or something similar. never has this led me to hit anyone.

However, I say this not to exonerate in any way CD from what she is accused of. I am afraid, I am always suspicious of people called out for something (with evidence) as in this case, when they claim that the recorded event is a moment's aberation. It rarely is.

All I am saying that using a pejorative word to describe an animal or person, is in no way an indication that that person may be violent or in other wods 'So what'

I know nothing about horses, but I’m guessing they are born with the desire and ability to run and jump?

Are they born with the same instincts to do dressage moves without any training? Serious question please.

Unfortunately another video has come to light from 2016 where Charlotte can be heard calling a horse a b***h.

That’s another serious blow urmstongran. I was looking forward to equestrian events but feel distressed to learn about such abuse.
I know more about training and caring for dogs. Cruelty went out years ago as trainers realised dogs work better in a trusting relationship.

More bad news.

From The Telegraph just now:

“ The Paris Olympics have been hit by fresh claims of equine abuse, with show jumping medal contender Max Kuehner of Austria subject to criminal proceedings in Germany for allegedly hitting his horse’s legs with a bar to make it jump higher.

Kuehner, the world No 3 in jumping, stands accused by the Munich II public prosecutor’s office of violating the German Animal Welfare Act by engaging in “active bar jumping” or “barring”. The technique is more commonly known as “rapping”, where a pole is used to smack the horse’s legs over a practice jump, forcing it to lift. It has been banned in Germany since May 2023.

According to the Austrian Equestrian Federation, Kuehner, 50, who is scheduled to compete in Versailles in both the individual and team jumping competitions, denies wrongdoing. “We can confirm, based on everything we have observed during the years of working with Max, that the way his horses are kept, trained and presented is of the highest quality,” the governing body told German newspaper Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung.

“Due to his impeccable attitude towards his horse as a sports partner, there is no reason whatsoever to assume that he uses methods in training that are contrary to animal welfare, or that he has used them in the past”.

It also insisted that Kuehner would participate at the Olympics as planned.

Ingmar De Vos, president of the FEI, equestrianism’s global governing body, said in Paris that the Austrian federation had been asked to provide further information.

Rider has faced allegations of animal cruelty before
Kuehner, who runs a tournament and training stable in the Bavarian town of Starnberg, has previously competed in Nations Cups with the Germany team but switched to representing the Alpine nation in 2015 “for sporting reasons”, a team spokesperson said.

Kuehner has faced allegations of animal cruelty before, in 2008. In an anonymous letter, the show jumper was accused of using a wire to make his horse jump more carefully. While the Bavarian Riding and Driving Association criticised the training method used by Kuehner, the disciplinary commission was unable to establish behaviour that contravened animal welfare laws. The case was discontinued with a ruling that was described as “minor guilt”. ”

I've always enjoyed the puissance (?) Pardon my French!

I won't be watching it any more now.

Sadly, like most things "these days" everything is taken to extremes.

I still maintain that being cruel to an animal is inexcusable, and only something certain types of people can do.

Particularly sustained, cruelty.

I’ve seen that recorded MissA
I’ve loved watching dressage. Just learning to ride, to encourage your horse over a small jump, or a stream out hacking feels like such an achievement that you really understand how skilful these riders are, how well schooled their horses are

Oh poor harmless Kevin, he makes me smile with its pure daftness 🙂

No! I hated that thing when it was on at Christmas, now it's even worse! Down with the carrot!!

Does anybody else find the Kevin the carrot Olympic advert amusing !
It tickles me everything I see it...but then I'm easily amused 🤣

I think she has previously been in some kind of trouble when a horse of hers had blood on its flanks.

foxie48

Katie49 it has really upset me too, I could hardly believe what I saw, added to this I've been anticipating going to the Olympics to watch the dressage for over a year and tbh it's really floored me. I cannot defend anything in the video but I will defend the sport of dressage. The sport is not cruel to horses but there are cruel people who own horses.
I have watched CDJ ride on numerous occasions, she always rides very "hot" reactive horses but they seem very relaxed even in the biggest most atmospheric situations. I find it hard to believe that she attains that degree of harmony and trust by cruel methods and tbh I think the dressage world would know, she's been top of the game for well over a decade.
I do know that prior to having her daughter she was not in a good place, I'm inclined to believe that the video is not representative of how she treats horses but it is not an excuse for that behaviour. I'm aware that people can lose their temper but when you are training horses, you cannot do that so there are times when you just have to walk away and leave the training for another day!

That’s what I heard. I think she’d gone through a relationship break up at the time? She probably had to teach to finance herself, something that doesn’t come naturally to her. People tend to think that anyone involved in equestrian sport is from a wealthy background and is rich but that isn’t the case. I know I’m probably in a sort of denial about all this but I still don’t think she could achieve what she has without a love and empathy for horses. I did notice that the horse in the video was heavily bandaged but assume that’s because dressage does put a lot of strain on the tendons ( or so I was once told).

Joseann

Oh foxie48, we can understand how upset you must be. I hope you can somehow manage to watch the dressage in Versailles without this incident spoiling your trip.

Thank you.

I am guessing that the fact that the girl was being taught in the lesson, which was apparently paid for by her sponsor, so it would seem quite likely that someone was filming it to show to the sponsor, maybe?

Oh foxie48, we can understand how upset you must be. I hope you can somehow manage to watch the dressage in Versailles without this incident spoiling your trip.

But if someone had a camera to film her, they must have had a reason for that. Were they intending to film her training methods and got this by accident? or had they taken the camera in to the session because the training using the whip in this way was normal.

Why did the person who filmed the incident not release it immediately it was taken? Was it because at the time it was accepted as being a normal way to train a horse and it was only recently they realised they could weaponise it to eliminate a top rider in another team that would give their team a better chance of winning.

There are so many questions about this film. Incuding why it was released when it was, who filmed it and if this training was so far away from what is normal for training all horses in this discipline, it was not released when made.

I think this whole sector of this equestrian discipline and the training methods used are deeply suspect and Charlotte Dujardin was unfortunate to be the one caught using methods that are actually endemic in this sport and in general use by all riders of all nations but not admitted to.

Katie49 it has really upset me too, I could hardly believe what I saw, added to this I've been anticipating going to the Olympics to watch the dressage for over a year and tbh it's really floored me. I cannot defend anything in the video but I will defend the sport of dressage. The sport is not cruel to horses but there are cruel people who own horses.
I have watched CDJ ride on numerous occasions, she always rides very "hot" reactive horses but they seem very relaxed even in the biggest most atmospheric situations. I find it hard to believe that she attains that degree of harmony and trust by cruel methods and tbh I think the dressage world would know, she's been top of the game for well over a decade.
I do know that prior to having her daughter she was not in a good place, I'm inclined to believe that the video is not representative of how she treats horses but it is not an excuse for that behaviour. I'm aware that people can lose their temper but when you are training horses, you cannot do that so there are times when you just have to walk away and leave the training for another day!

Well yes foxie you know more about it than I do and I'm sure you are correct. As I said, I am not particularly an animal lover - I have got into a few spats because I don't like dogs. However there is a difference between not liking and seeing one being hurt. This video really upset me, seeing that beautiful creature being mistreated by someone who is taking glory for her achievements.