FA transgender ban in football.

Doodledog

Why is there a need for 'trans' teams? The differences in bodies are between the sexes, and 'gender' has nothing to do with that.

Because otherwise some trans will claim there is nowhere to go.
To a certain extent they may be right.

Most team strips could be seen as unisex-shorts and shirts, so no problem there.

A TIM, like any other player, would have to prove his value as a team member before he would be incorporated into a major men’s team, but there would be opportunity to play in other matches.

If men won’t accept them onto their teams, that is a problem, but since both groups are biologically male, it is a problem for them to sort out.

Once in a team, the problem disappears because male and female teams already don’t play against each other.

The setting up of trans trans would simply cause another problem.
Who would they play against?
All TW team-against men’s teams
All TM teams -against women.
Mixed TW/TM teams . . . ?

then I believe there is a simple swab test
A buccal swab, not intrusive at all, from the inside of the cheek, could be used.

Why is there a need for 'trans' teams? The differences in bodies are between the sexes, and 'gender' has nothing to do with that.

I was just curious as to what they were going to use to determine that a person is female.

Of course we all hope that TW will stop misrepresenting themselves as something they aren’t, which would avoid all the hassle.

If dishonest men continue to try and use female facilities, as they threaten to do, then I believe there is a simple swab test.
The hold up will once again impact on honest women wanting to use the toilets, and possibly endanger anyone who does challenge a TW.

I’m curious to know if you think TW would care about that.

The easiest way to work out whether or not it is a lying male will be their reaction a) to being challenged and b) their reaction being asked to test or the outcome of the test.

The tall, muscular, deep voiced females beloved for a long time on GN, as examples of “you can’t tell” would be most likely be happy to have the truth about them confirmed, whilst being upset that the behaviour of some TW has made the test necessary.

Jackiest

Rosie51

Jackiest

Have they said how they are going to determine if a person is a trans woman. Normally easy but for that one in a million person with mixed up chromosomes and genes it may be important.

Everybody, even that one in a million (or more) person will be able to have their sex determined, there isn't a third sex. Laws can't be formulated or enacted on the basis that one in a million (or more) will be an anomaly. If the stars align and that one in a million (or more) person turns out to be a sporting talent I'm sure they'll work something out.

I was just curious as to what they were going to use to determine that a person is female.

Well, I would presume, because the number of transgender people who play in women's football is known because they have declared their status, then they are already identified.
The BBC reported the number is around 20.
Perhaps buccal swab otherwise?

Rosie51

Jackiest

Have they said how they are going to determine if a person is a trans woman. Normally easy but for that one in a million person with mixed up chromosomes and genes it may be important.

Everybody, even that one in a million (or more) person will be able to have their sex determined, there isn't a third sex. Laws can't be formulated or enacted on the basis that one in a million (or more) will be an anomaly. If the stars align and that one in a million (or more) person turns out to be a sporting talent I'm sure they'll work something out.

I was just curious as to what they were going to use to determine that a person is female.

Not before time either.

Jackiest

Have they said how they are going to determine if a person is a trans woman. Normally easy but for that one in a million person with mixed up chromosomes and genes it may be important.

Everybody, even that one in a million (or more) person will be able to have their sex determined, there isn't a third sex. Laws can't be formulated or enacted on the basis that one in a million (or more) will be an anomaly. If the stars align and that one in a million (or more) person turns out to be a sporting talent I'm sure they'll work something out.

Have they said how they are going to determine if a person is a trans woman. Normally easy but for that one in a million person with mixed up chromosomes and genes it may be important.

keepingquiet

I am old enought to remember female East German athletes (especially in field events) being banned eventually because of hormone meds they took to improve performance.

Why not a similar test for trans/women? If their performance is hormone boosted then they should not be allowed to compete- or am I just being daft?

Taking drugs and lying about your sex are two different things. All athletes face disqualification if they take drugs, including hormones.

eazybee

They haven't come to their senses; they have realised there will be less profit if they break the law.

They've realised they won't have liability insurance if they've broken the law. Any injuries caused by allowing a male to compete in the female category will invalidate their insurance giving them responsibility for compensation and possibly criminal charges. Sad that insurance issues won the day rather than scientific common sense but you take a win however it comes. It is driving me mad how they keep referring to a 'change in the law' though, there has been no change in the EA, it is today what it has been since its inception. That it needed clarifying is down to deliberate misinterpretation.

No “Trans person” has lost any rights over this sensible decision. The only people who have lost out are a small number of quite despicable men who saw a clever way to cheat.

Sporting bodies have tested hormone levels in trans athletes keepingquiet. Trans women can currently compete in some women's events provided their testosterone levels have remained below a certain level for a period of 12 months before competing. However, recent studies have shown that trans women (men) retain their advantage over women for as long as 2 years, even after a year on hormone therapy. In addition, trans women (men) who have gone through puberty, before starting on hormones, can still retain their male muscle mass and height and that can be permanent, even with gender-affirming hormone therapy. So it's always going to be unequal.

They haven't come to their senses; they have realised there will be less profit if they break the law.

I am old enought to remember female East German athletes (especially in field events) being banned eventually because of hormone meds they took to improve performance.

Why not a similar test for trans/women? If their performance is hormone boosted then they should not be allowed to compete- or am I just being daft?

It’s as if all institutions and bodies have had a period of collective madness and have finally come to their senses.

Skydancer

It's time that all sports were size/weight-related as boxing is. For example some women may be 6ft tall and others 4ft tall. How can any small person compete fairly with a much taller person? This applies particularly to running where, generally, all the contestants have very long legs.

A woman who is 4ft tall could have dwarfism, or some condition which means she is exceptionally short and could be considered for para sports.
DH's Godmother was about 4' 2", she did not have dwarfism.

Well done the FA. ✔️

Carlotta

Well blow me down, but yes I did Rosie51. Rather like Will Thomas ranking in at 445th as a swimmer for University of Pennsylvania swimming team but then declared he was a woman, changed his name to Lia Thomas, and suddenly came in as the clear winner in the women's 500-yard freestyle event. Amazing!

But he's not a cheat! Oh no!
He's just misunderstood.

Galaxy

It's complex though ysnt it, this ruling only impacts the UK, other countries s are at a different stage of the debate, most of them are light years behind us.

What it really needs is for the Olympic Committee to ban any males from female sports. Currently they have passed the buck to a certain extent.
Then there might be more incentive to have specific TIM categories (call them open if you like).
Let’s not pretend it’s concern about men being deprived of medals by cheating females.
This is purely a number of TIM, seeing that cheating will give them an opportunity to succeed, when entering male sports wouldn’t.

I know. Cricket, football and netball in one day. It is amazing really.

Galaxy

It's complex though ysnt it, this ruling only impacts the UK, other countries s are at a different stage of the debate, most of them are light years behind us.

Yes, in my joy I'm forgetting it's only UK. Oh well, it's a start, little acorns and all that

It's complex though ysnt it, this ruling only impacts the UK, other countries s are at a different stage of the debate, most of them are light years behind us.

As more and more sports are waking up to the absolute madness and unfairness that has existed by allowing men, any men, to compete in women's sports I do hope there is retrograde revision of those records, medals etc that are currently held by someone of the opposite sex. The women's tables may take some time, the men's tables.....will they need a single adjustment? But there was never an advantage according to so many. Those men with the DSD 5ARD who swept the board in the Rio Olympics 800m women's final would be a start.

Oh yes I know Sharron Davies, Martina Navratilova and a few others have spoken out and been vilified for it. Caitlyn Jenner is a bit of a 'both sides'. While acknowledging that trans women are “taking valuable opportunities” from cisgender women and “causing physical harm.” Jenner advocated for Hailey Davidson to be accepted for LPGA tournaments saying golf isn't like swimming etc then two years later is appealing to Davidson to withdraw as golf is a game of 'honour and integrity'
When I mentioned male sportsmen I was meaning those who still 'identify' as men , and especially those who feature as participants or commentators today.