Dressing fearlessly: throwing out the style rule book

Re "boyfriend " clothing. I imagine many of us borrowed an oversize sweater but do you remember the shirt advert, I think Jean Shrimpton wearing a man's shirt and nothing else with the dlogan
"Looks even better on a man"? Van Heusen I think.

Not sure whether your conment Monica about "wearing clothing designed to emphasise their sexuality" is descriptive or disapproving. The young women I see, admittedly probably friends of the DDs do in their 30's or early 40's look incredibly chic but of course, could also look attractive in a bin bag!

PS skirts aplenty from Viyella, Jaegar, CC, Phase Eight, Boden etc , you just need to know where to look.

Yes, Monica, but we're talking about what the fashion industry sees as 'feminine' and why it calls certain loose-cut garments "boyfriend". Not about whether you could find a skirt in a shop ... it's impossible to believe you couldn't find many, btw. Did you mean they were mostly too short?

I can remember wearing my boyfriend's sweater in the 1960s and also buying a big beautifully warm mens woollen sweater.

Adult clothing has always been distinctly gendered, the move to unisex clothes started in the 60s when we all started wearing jeans and big sweaters and womens clothes have always included an element of form fitting clothes, mainly for evening wear and that has changed little.

Now both sexes and all ages live in trousers, I wanted a skirt this year and ended up buying it in a charity shop because there were so few in the shops but go round any chain clothing store/supermarket where the vast majority of women of all ages buy their clothes and 95% and possibly more, of the clothing on offer will neither form fitting nor skimpy. Look around when you go out, you will see a few girls tottering around on ridiculous heels and revealing clothing during the day, but very few. The vast majority of women whether high maintence and high fashion or not caring what they wear, normally wear clothing that is not designed to emphasise their sexuality.

Haha, it's quite a recent thing, isn't it, this boyfriend cardigan & boyfriend jeans, etc? I suspect it arrived around the same time as styles became more distinctly gendered - women's clothes are "supposed to" be skimpy form-fitting so anything slouchy or unisex must be men's clothes!

Pockets disappeared from women's clothes then, too

so it looks as if it's really a man's cardigan?

I always wondered why boyfriend cardigans are called that?

I've just ordered this week, three new pairs of shoes from Hotter, in the sale mind. So got them all half price. One black and servicable, one pink for spring and one pair of sandals in lime for summer. I also bought a long kaftan, some harem trousers, a boyfriend cardigan in wine colour and some new dressy trousers. So when I need to be more official I dress accordingly and then on other days I go for a more boho look which I love and I couldn't care less what anyone else thinks about it. X

I've been overweight all my adult life and my shape has driven what I wear. I do care what others think about how I'm dressed and know what suits me, so choosy about pieces from the current fashion. However, I've always wanted to develop a certain style like boho or something and make it part of me, but I don't seem to be able to manage this! I admire women who are disciplined when it comes to buying clothes and think about how a garment will fit in with their wardrobe. And what about the women who get rid of something from their wardrobe when they buy something new? I can't bring myself to do this.

I think I can honestly say that I have never dressed to attract men. I try to make the most of myself and my attitude before I was married was basically 'this is me, take it or leave it'. I was always the less attractive girl when I went out with my female friends, so never had high expectations of being asked out. But I had lots of friends of both sexes and all my boyfriends were my friends first.

I do follow fashion and the way I try to keep up to date is through my accessories. I can't see me wearing something just because I like it. I wouldn't feel comfortable or confident.

Well said M0nica!

Going right back to Garliccake's last email, at my tallest I was 5ft 4.5 inches. I am now 5ft 3 inches, and certainly not a 'high boned beauty', pretty ordinary looking to be honest. Yes, I am ageing well, but that is genetic, not effort on my part. DM, a very elegant woman, always said I could be attractive if I tried, the implication being that I didn't and wasn't.

I was fortunate to be brought up in a home where any connection between how you dressed and attracting male attention was never mentioned. As far as my DM was concerned you dressed well for self respect and self satisfaction, not for male admiration. This did give me a lot of confidence because it never occurred to me to think about the manifold judgements passed on women. so if they were made, and they probably were, I just didn't notice them. I spent most of my career working in the engineering industry, usually the only woman above clerical level and once the men realised that I could give as good as I got and didn't simper or cry, we worked well together. Of course there was the occasional sexist remark, but I just shrugged it off. The nastiest remarks came from other women, who resented seeing a woman in a senior position to them.

I might also add that I do not look down on anyone, but I will always challenge cliches that get rolled out without much thought about their accuracy or general application.

One of the ponchos I bought is a lovely navy one covered in diamontes - I thought it would be great on the long haul flight we did but when on board I thought it was 'too good' for that and ended up wearing the £10 Matalan one that won't stay on. So I thought I'd wear it whilst away - never seemed to be warm enough to go without a full coat so that didn't work. Then it was winter here and nowhere to go in it so it's again in the wardrobe having been to the other side of the world and back and still unworn! I do love fur though and have a lot of that in various garments - there's not much call for wearing it in front of a computer every day though

Garlic

Ooh ... fur shorts ... <imagines own belly magnified by close-fitting fur> <consigns idea to the realms of fantasy>

No fur? I love fur. If I can't wear all my furry things, I'm going to stay in all winter!
I agree about the booty shorts, tho' - can't imagine why anyone would wear them at any age. Unless they're made of fur .....

I like "Geschmacksache" A good juicy word to throw into the conversation.

My Geschmacksache as a non-driver in a windy city doesn't run much to clothes that drape and rely mostly on gravity. Neither does my figure.

? Alea we are all tall willowy types in our heads.
I admire anyone who truly wears what they want to.

rosesarered you clearly know me well - if only!!!
I just drape the wrap round my shoulders, fling one end over one shoulder and if I am not wearing my cross body bag under it, "anchor" the loose end with the strap of my bag.
Granted I don't walk Grace in it (Lands End Squall with poo bags in every pocket) carry shopping (well I rarely carry shopping anyway) or run for buses (ditto)
Maybe the years of wearing a scarlet gown at university instead of a coat have something to do with it. Recalling my youth??
Bottom line is, wear what *you feel good in* and what the Germans call "Geschmacksache" -a question of personal taste.

How do those who look good in a poncho and love them travel around? Do they drive and stack their shopping in the boot? Or do they get public transport and search in their bag for a buss pass while carrying several bags of groceries after trying to hold the poncho from taking off in the breeze at the busstop?

Seems to me that it is a garment which can look good when you go out for a meal or to visit friends, or for a gentle walk with a well-behaved dog, but is not very practical when both hands are full and it is blowing a gale. There is a good reason why coats have sleeves and buttons.

I made an effort to look smart to go shopping recently and felt quite good until I caught sight of a frusty old baggage staring at me. I gave her a glare right back then realised it was me reflected in a plate glass shop window. Exit, deflated stage left.

Sometimes I quite enjoy being invisible. Like when I want to nip to the supermarket in my old jogging bottoms and trainers because it's nearly midnight and I've run out of milk (haven't done it in pyjamas yet but I'm sure I could get away with it). Or when I want to sit in a cafe and just people watch and nobody even knows I'm there. At other times I like to make an effort and dress up, and sometimes think I look quite good - and then my DD and DDIL turn up and I realise I'm deluded

I become invisible when in the presence of younger people. Completely invisible. Even my death stare doesn't work. I did confront a shop lady in Smiths about it once, but tbh, I can't be arsed any more. Perhaps I will do it again. It is fun if nothing else.

What you are wearing can make a huge difference to your mood.

I use a kilt pin to hold together the fronts of these ridiculous cardigans with no buttons. What is that all about?

My pin has five little owls on it.

I gave DD a blanket wrap which she wears in milder weather. It looks good on her. It would not be warm enough for me. I prefer Marks and Sparks Stormwear with a zip and poppers.

Heh, Ana, if it rains you can pull your wrap over your head.

I remain convinced that invisibility is a mental construct. I get served in bars, shops or anywhere else. I do not get overlooked because I do not expect to be.

It sounds as though you are blessed with either a remarkably secure 'presence' or the kind of high-boned beauty that never ages - or both! I am, or was, pretty rather than beautiful and depended, until recently (thanks, menopause ) on external factors for my confidence. It's a shallow world out there: if you've never needed to notice the manifold judgements passed on women, you are fortunate. It's unfair to look down on the rest of us.

I'm not looking down on women who live in leggings & tents, either. I wear the same a lot of the time; it's comfy and warm! All I'm saying is that I'm ready to unleash my sartorial creativity of old; since the vast majority of fashion advice for older women is so dismissive, I'm seeking company while I experiment with what works outside the beige & elasticated box.

Glad you got a kilt pin, too, shysal. I bet you'll look good!