That burkini!

But jane if they allow women to go swimming in public places where they otherwise wouldn't feel able to, surely that's promoting integration?

But denying women who wish to be covered up when swimming that opportunity isn't doing anything for 'integration', is it? They just won't venture into public swimming pools. Full stop!

It suits you pompa! More seriously, we did lots of things in the past and have moved on from them. Good heavens women even have the vote! We cannot countenance a slide back to the way things were. Too many good women suffered to gain us the freedoms we have now. The problem with these 'burkinis' is that women who wear them will never do other than stand out as odd in our pools. They will be a barrier to integration just as the wearing of burkas is. Full stop.

I remember women only swimming sessions too along with women only train carriages!

I agree that the complete covering of a face, except for eyes, is a potential security issue.

pompa in answer to your question: it depends on the place and the weather! Raises the odds of arrest if it is a heatwave and you are in a bank/outside a jewellery store!

I don't have a problem with a woman (or man) wishing to cover their body in public, but they must be recognisable. I'm sure that a man in a similar garment to a burka would soon be arrested. How long could I wear this for ?

This is what I wear under my crash helmet in winter.

Penstemmon Genuine question: is it better that Muslim women may find it easier to join in activities (sport/swimming etc) and therefore integrate more with easier access to clothing that supports the cultural norms of their families or is it better that they stay away from pools etc. because they may feel unconfortable in swimsuit/male relatives will not allow such a level of undress in front of men.

I would answer yes to your question, but it made me think of learning to swim in the 1950's.
At Stockport Swimming Baths there were three pools - the Ladies' Plunge, the Men's Plunge and the 'Duckpond', a shallow pool where children learned to swim.
It made me think that it's not so long ago that we in Britain Privided facilities for segregated bathing, so perhaps we should be more tolerant of other people's standards and beliefs.

They wear them and intergrate

Jane10 agreed in all respects.

pompa quite!

I do have issues with either the burka or niqab from a security point of view. I would not be allowed to enter a bank in a crash helmet or be very welcome in many shops, should be the same for everyone regardless of religion etc.

Genuine question: is it better that Muslim women may find it easier to join in activities (sport/swimming etc) and therefore integrate more with easier access to clothing that supports the cultural norms of their families or is it better that they stay away from pools etc. because they may feel unconfortable in swimsuit/male relatives will not allow such a level of undress in front of men.

I know and support wholeheartedly that ideally it would be best if all women had genuine choice about what they wore/where they went but could this 'burkini' be a step in the right direction?

if they want to
I think that is the nub of it

Whether or not M&S's version sells is irrelevant its the fact that some women aren't allowed to swim other than covered up like this the issue. France is making a stand on the creeping normalisation of this sort of thing. M&S is just wanting to cash in on it and I deplore them for it.

Either this burkini garment will be a commercial success or it won't ( in which case it would then vanish.)I don't see any problem with women wearing it if they want to.

Ah, but France would do, as it has banned even headscarves in all schools there.

If I dare revisit the original topic, I see the French government are castigating the likes of Marksies for the garment.
"French woman's minister: M&S 'burkini' is 'irresponsible' | UK | News | Daily Express"
www.express.co.uk › News › UK

Sounds like my dd. She's terrified of ca skin

The ones my DGC wear have short sleeves and the bottoms are short, they don't cover all over. They usually wear them on the beach.
Did I mention the child with rickets in N Queensland - had never had any sun on his skin because his mother was terrified of him getting burnt and skin cancer?

My darling daughter insists the dgds wear them all the time ( in summer) I worry about vitamin D

has anyone else seen the all in one coverup suits for children which filter out the harmful rays of the sun and negate the need for copious amounts of sun cream? They look a bit like a burkini but no head covering
Welshwife, yes I have been buying them for a long time for the DGD (TK Maxx had them) after I saw DGS wearing them in Australia. You can buy them with hats over there which have a big flap to cover the back of the neck. Brilliant! Separate tops and bottoms are good because they are long enough not to come apart and leave a gap, but if they have a growth spurt ensure that they last for the whole summer.

I'm way beyond the second cup of tea, Anya

I'm on my fourth

Happy Easter

Indeed a 'second cup of tea' thread Merlot - just have to be careful not to inhale the as I'm beyond LOLing at certain posts

gettingonabit - I agree showers as a child completely unknown and I went swimming all the time, possibly a bath once a week, that's the way it was for many of us. As an adult I can't imagine starting the day without a shower now, I hardly ever use the bath.

Brits do tend to bath more than shower in my experience whereas for years the washing facilities in hotels in European countries were mainly showers - I always bathed as a child and actually hated showering whenever I needed to do it - the force of the water hitting me took my breath away and I did not like it at all. I got over all this once we installed one at home and now prefer to shower - mainly as it us quicker than waiting for the bath to fill and easier to get out of! DD still baths most days - likes to relax and read while there - and showers before she goes to work.

^I have of course no medical training whatsowever- but did extensive research as part of my rôle in charge of leisure services for a complex with a pool.
A "voluntary role " you say, so not in any professional capacity.

Nothing more to be said except an apology to Galen for impugning her professional competence which was entirely out of order.

Jump to History - A descendant of the loincloth and thong is the jockstrap, [citation needed] created by Chicago sporting goods company Sharp & Smith in 1874. The first historical reference to the thong since then is in 1939 when New York City Mayor Fiorello LaGuardia ordered nude dancers to dress more appropriately.
‎Nomenclature - ‎History - ‎Modern thong - ‎Design and variety