We have become a nation of scruffs!

I have a photo next to me of my grandad c1926 on the beach with my mum aged 1. He is paddling, wearing a collar and tie and a jacket, with his trousers rolled up to his knees. I have no doubt he was dressed as other men were in the beach (it wasn't a warm day).

I went to a funeral mid-90s and was the only one in a black suit in a packed church.

There are times when we just want to not stand out as being too formal or too informal, or maybe not stand out as being different.

Btw I thought Gareth Malone looked quite smart and Katie Derham looked a bit over the top.

One bride in the USA gave her wedding guests a strict dress code according to their weight:

Women 100 - 160lbs
Green velvet sweater, orange suede pants, Louboutin heels (must have red heels) and a Burberry scarf
Women 160lbs plus All black clothes, black heels
Men 100 - 200lbs Purple "fuzzy" jacket, soda hat, white trainers and plain glow sticks
Men 200lbs plus All camouflage clothes, black sneakers
Children all ages Red from head to toe

Can't wait for my invite!

Casdon

PippaZ I’d cry if I wasn’t laughing. Okay, you are right in every respect, I capitulate.

I will repeat what I first said. Those who like to live by rules will judge others by clothes rules. Those who are happy to live and let live as long as no harm is done will see the whole person.

None of the previous attempts to tell me what I think has changed that. I never said I wanted you to "capitulate"; why would I? That's just melodramatic posting designed to attract attention. You are as entitled as I am to live how you chose. However, you tried to tell me I was wrong to see life as I do. It couldn't possibly be true, simply because you don't. It would just have been nice if you had agreed I was entitled to my way of seeing life too.

'Dress codes' make me angry. Why should someone else tell me what to wear? On principle I would bin any invitation that stated or implied a dress code.

PippaZ I’d cry if I wasn’t laughing. Okay, you are right in every respect, I capitulate.

Alot of these threads get spoilt with squabbling,it's about clothes

grannyrebel7

I love dressing up for a special occasion. I also love a dress, white trainers and the denim jacket look which is fashionable now. Some people might consider this to be scruffy but times change.

Yes, this is what I feel. That people are not accepting that what is considered dressed up and smart nowadays might seem casual to a previous generation.

I love dressing up for a special occasion. I also love a dress, white trainers and the denim jacket look which is fashionable now. Some people might consider this to be scruffy but times change.

Casdon

Are you sure PippaZ, that it’s me who has demonstrated a need to be right? I have never said that you don’t have a right to a different ‘perspective’ (an attempt at sarcasm perchance?), but there is plenty more evidence if you want to see it. I’d like to see yours too., then perhaps we could have a balanced debate?

Goodness me, you are prickly, aren't you? "Perspective" was the word you used so I quoted it. Why assume I am trying to be sarcastic? I don't want to see more evidence that we are affected by what we wear; I am sure we are especially if they are clothes we love to wear. However, that was a very poor piece of evidence for that and I didn't need convincing. I simply don't agree that everyone "judges" others by what they are wearing.

First you were quite offensive when you suggested I was inferring one way of viewing life was "inferior" to another. Which I wasn't. I said I didn't believe that but you continued to insist you knew my mind better than I did.

Then you have gone on, and on, and on. All I have said is that we disagree and that that's okay. But your emphatic disagreement will not make me change my mind that I, and others, do not "judge" people by what they are wearing.

And still, you want to continue. Why?

I like to dress up a Little bit but try to look smart with a casual twist- I know what I mean?

Are you sure PippaZ, that it’s me who has demonstrated a need to be right? I have never said that you don’t have a right to a different ‘perspective’ (an attempt at sarcasm perchance?), but there is plenty more evidence if you want to see it. I’d like to see yours too., then perhaps we could have a balanced debate?

MayBeMaw

Last Night of the Proms
Katie Dereham in a spangly frock
Gareth Malone - tennis pumps and no socks.

I rest my case

Yep! Gareth should have been in the good old sparky number + high heels and Katie in the sock-less pumps. Much better!

When exactly were these unwritten rules written about so-called dress sense (and no sense) and who wrote them?

Casdon

PippaZ I don’t have a need to be right, I’m just not agreeing with your perspective, and there is evidence which supports my view. Isn’t that the way the world works?

The first evidence I posted was from 2020, so yes, research is continuing. There is plenty more if you want to see it, I just selected a few from many.

Not all evidence is equal. That was very old and American and a very poor argument to convince me that anyone should wear what someone else decides is right. I am sure, though, her son will have been glad to have the free advertising for his clothing company.

I know you do not agree with my "perspective" and that is okay, I don't need you to. But I think I have said that several times now. Just stop trying to be right and agree - as is the fact - that I do not need to change my view to yours and am not asking you to agree with me. I am just asking that you accept that I do have a different view and that it is neither right nor wrong - just the way I see the world. It is quite possibly shared by 50% of the population - even if you don't rate them or what they wear - including at a funeral

There will be different points of view about whether what you wear defines you. If I met you it wouldn't - other things would, but not what you are wearing. If you met me it would but then ... would I care?

I was at a Christening at the weekend. The age range apart from the baby and his little cousin - who was wearing a beautiful little dress and matching bow in her curls - was from mid 20s to early 80s. All the men wore shirt and tie with a jacket etc - some were in suits others mix and match garments. Most of the women wearing pretty dresses. One or two had styles which did not exactly flatter but it all made a lovely mix.
The priest was wearing a white shirt and gold cuff links which look lovely in the photos where he is pouring the water.
This was just a cross section of a normal family enjoying a lovely celebration with others where good food, live music and dancing were enjoyed. We had a glorious afternoon. Everyone was wearing clothes they felt were comfortable and appropriate.

as to funerals, i believe in the brown boots principle,
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Khwy-ApbEb0

I'm fairly sure that navy or grey is perfectly acceptable to wear for a funeral halfpint1. I attended a funeral in July, when only 30 people could go into the church but there were many more who stood outside to pay their respects. Almost everyone, inside the church, and outside, were in smart grey or navy, except one man who came in long baggy shorts, t shirt and sandals! I know that the deceased wouldn't have minded that at all!

I attended my Uncle's funeral in England 2 years ago, I don't
possess a black coat so wore my dark blue one with a black
hat and shoes. I was the only one not in complete black .
It made me feel uncomfortable and a little ashamed.

Many refer to weddings, but I think a funeral is an occasion when people should look as though they have made an effort.

I don’t mean a suit, black tie, black dress etc, but simply to appear as if they haven’t left the house with no thought.

Tatty jeans, trainers, washed-out tee shirts and an old anorak never used to be seen at a funeral, but often are nowadays.

PippaZ I don’t have a need to be right, I’m just not agreeing with your perspective, and there is evidence which supports my view. Isn’t that the way the world works?

The first evidence I posted was from 2020, so yes, research is continuing. There is plenty more if you want to see it, I just selected a few from many.

I think, Ealdemodor, that you have to accept that fashions change over the years. The fellow wearing low slung trousers might actually have been very fashion conscious and ‘trendy’. He might have looked at you and thought perhaps you looked old fashioned. I think your use of the word scruffy has muddied the water because, if we have not chosen to keep up with current fashions, what may appear to some as scruffy, may actually be quite current and smart to some eyes. For example, the ‘Peaky Blinders’ look.

swaying to sway

I appreciate that she is a research Psychologist in her day to day job but some of the referenced material she used was older than the students at her university would be allowed to put forward. She also seemed to be advertising her son's clothing line.

It was written in 2014. I wonder what work has been done on the subject since.

When a woman puts on a black dress to go to a funeral, or running tights to go to the gym, her brain is primed to behave in ways consistent with that meaning.

Just what proportion of the population of this country - not America where their funerals can be very different - would still say that a black dress at a funeral is a given anymore?

It isn't a "fact" that that is the way it is and I doubt that I am the only one who would not - particularly having read that article - disagree with your need to be right. I am very happy for you to believe what you do - I'm not stopping you from seeing the rules. Just give everyone else an equal right to their opinion and from not allowing the rules of a small group in any way swaying their judgement of another human being.

PippaZ It’s not my opinion, it’s what the research says, and there is lots of it.
neurosciencenews.com/clothing-personal-perception-15303/
www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/our-gender-ourselves/201407/why-it-matters-what-we-wear
I’m not saying it’s admirable, but it is the way it is.

I do love dressing up for special occasions especially a wedding or a meal at a fine dining restaurant. My mode of dress for the theatre would be something comfortable rather than something dressy. Each of us is different and should dress in what we feel is right for us and not what other people deem appropriate or not appropriate.

I think you were implying that those who ‘like to live by rules’ are inferior to those who are ‘happy to live and let live’.

No, I wasn't. Although I do find that comment arrogant and judgemental.

I also think that we do all judge, ... ... a person, by what they are wearing,

That's fine. That's your opinion. I do not agree with you.