How safe is battery powered transport?

Petrol/diesel cars rarely spontaniously combust. EVs do.

DD worked in an engineering research centre and was involved in a project looking at the life cycle emissions from electric and petrol vehicles. Manufacturing the battery for an EV produced as much emissions as driving a conventional car 100,000 miles.

On ULEZ I do not understand the fuss. Two thirds of all cars on the roads in the UK are ULEZ compliant and ULEZ compliant cars have been available for years. I drive a 2013 car, and it is ULEZ compliant and ULEZ compatible cars have been available since the turn of the century. I previously owned a Toyota Yaris aand they became ULEZ compatible in January 2006,

So the heart rending tales of people being to poor to buy ULEZ cars, is untrue. If they can afford a car they will find plenty of old cheap ULEZ cars on the market.

Could we have some evidence for your first statement please*MOnica*?
Were the EVs concerned using modern integral Battery Management Systems?

www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/electric-cars/how-much-fire-risk-are-electric-vehicles

There are more fires in trucks and cars that are not electric powered, we need to be careful charging e-bikes and scooters indoors, probably best charged outside

So the heart rending tales of people being too poor to buy ULEZ cars, is untrue. If they can afford a car they will find plenty of old cheap ULEZ cars on the market.

Their old cars which aren't ULEZ friendly are not very saleable so where are they to get the money to buy ULEZ friendly cars? My son's car is less than 9 years old but is not ULEZ friendly because when we bought it for him, we had no idea that it would be so expensive to run. It has a very, very low road tax rate because of its emissions so we thought that we were making an eco friendly decision. We certainly don't have the money to help him out again and we are having difficulty selling it because despite being in great condition, low mileage and a good service history, it is a CAT 5.

An up to date link from Sweden that Petrol and diesel is 20 times more likely to be involved in a fire, similar stats in US

thedriven.io/2023/05/16/petrol-and-diesel-cars-20-times-more-likely-to-catch-fire-than-evs/amp/

Nobody is denying that battery fires are harder to put out or that proper strategies need to be put in place to deal with them. What the current research actually shows is that electric cars are the least likely to catch fire by a considerable margin, followed by petrol and diesel, with hybrids the most likely.
What I find hard to understand about these threads is that we always have negative comments about batteries, weight, tyres and brakes (the last two without any evidence), but the same people never mention the fact that once on the road electric cars are not pumping out noxious fumes into the air we breathe.
That feels pretty important to me.
I do understand that cost is a big issue for many, but it seems to me that every little helps; we can afford a lease of 350€ a month with 5€ a week to run it, so we do.

And the fact that they are a dream to drive🙂

Whitewavemark2

And the fact that they are a dream to drive🙂

Indeed they are. The lease means no service charges, tyres included and all parts guaranteed. The insurance is cheaper too.
We are lucky in that France has no road tax.

I agree with Monica and MadeInYorkshire.
Not to mention the rush towards heat pumps. They cost £10 - £14 thousand, plus all the new radiators needed which are apparently much larger than usual radiators, and add to that, they don’t warm houses in colder climates properly! Even if they did, how is everyone expected to be able to afford one? How are they going to be fitted in tower blocks?

icanhandthemback

^So the heart rending tales of people being too poor to buy ULEZ cars, is untrue. If they can afford a car they will find plenty of old cheap ULEZ cars on the market.^

Their old cars which aren't ULEZ friendly are not very saleable so where are they to get the money to buy ULEZ friendly cars? My son's car is less than 9 years old but is not ULEZ friendly because when we bought it for him, we had no idea that it would be so expensive to run. It has a very, very low road tax rate because of its emissions so we thought that we were making an eco friendly decision. We certainly don't have the money to help him out again and we are having difficulty selling it because despite being in great condition, low mileage and a good service history, it is a CAT 5.

Exactly - the people on the lowest incomes cannot afford ULEZ, or even with the 'scrappage scheme' afford to replace older vehicles! They won't have savings, some people just have no clue ...

Petrol cars have batteries

The reason that the story that “electric cars catch fire” is because media stories focus on controversy, nobody is going to get paid to write an article that says EVs are safe.

The Guardian in particular will print anything that that promotes environmental issues wether they are true or balanced. Last week it was the Gulf Stream is going to stop in 2 yrs, some Gransnetters even believed it.

Panorama screened a negative EV documentary which gave the impression it was chaos, it’s not 90% plus of charging is at home, a few owners cant do that but still chose an EV, range is a problem, if you need to drive 400miles you will have to charge half way as you would with any other car.
By 2035 when all cars and small vans will have to be EV, that’s 12 yrs infrastructure will be adequate.

I'm not sure about the batteries but do have reservations and think they could be the next ecological disaster.

How safe are they? Batteries apart, should electric bikes be allowed on pavements? I saw a young woman zooming amongst pedestrians on not very wide pavements in town the other day on a very large electric bicycle.

I was unconvinced, so I looked it up.
www.thecarexpert.co.uk/are-electric-car-fires-really-that-common/#:~:text=There%20are%20very%20good%20reasons,fires%2C%20leading%20to%20overheating).
I can however see the risk if batteries are left on for hours longer than they are recommended to fully charge.

Casdon

I was unconvinced, so I looked it up.
www.thecarexpert.co.uk/are-electric-car-fires-really-that-common/#:~:text=There%20are%20very%20good%20reasons,fires%2C%20leading%20to%20overheating).
I can however see the risk if batteries are left on for hours longer than they are recommended to fully charge.

My question is, how are we going to dispose of them when they are no longer viable?

MadeinYorkshire your post doesn't make sense. The earliest ULEZ compliant cars are 20 years old at least and few cars on the road are not ULEZ compliant

The price of a 20 year old car will be in £hundreds and many of those who at the bottom of the car owning heap will already own ULEZ compliant cars anyway. The people most likely to be affected by the new regulations are those with large expensive diesel powered Chelsea tractors.

Our cars are 10, and 18 years old respectively and both are ULEZ compliant. It was not a feature we looked for, but when the subject was made newsworthy we checked and found that both cars complied.

Callistemon21

Casdon

I was unconvinced, so I looked it up.
www.thecarexpert.co.uk/are-electric-car-fires-really-that-common/#:~:text=There%20are%20very%20good%20reasons,fires%2C%20leading%20to%20overheating).
I can however see the risk if batteries are left on for hours longer than they are recommended to fully charge.

My question is, how are we going to dispose of them when they are no longer viable?

That’s a very good point. I looked it up because I couldn’t believe that they could be so much more likely to spontaneously combust than petrol or diesel cars, which it appears they aren’t - but that’s not to say they are a good option for the future. I’m on the fence, I’ve got a diesel car at the moment, and I’m hanging on to it for a few years until the way forward becomes clearer.

Many new cars are now petrol hybrids which give limited range on electric alone, some are plug in hybrids, these will take over from diesel.

ULEZ will inconvenience a few but benefit the majority so I think it’s the right thing to do, pollution is really bad, in some weather conditions you can smell it as you get to the M25. Incidentally I was sent a warning from Heathrow, they are inside the area, so be careful which car you bring to the airport.

Modern diesels with particulate filters and using ad blue are no more polluting than petrol engines, and they do more miles to the gallon though Katie59, so there’s no reason for that to be the case. I did a lot of research before I bought mine because I was concerned about the environmental impact. I’m on the fence about what to do next time. I’ve got friends with hybrid cars, but because we live in a mountainous area the electric mileage isn’t that good. It’s a tough call at the moment.

M0nica

MadeinYorkshire your post doesn't make sense. The earliest ULEZ compliant cars are 20 years old at least and few cars on the road are not ULEZ compliant

The price of a 20 year old car will be in £hundreds and many of those who at the bottom of the car owning heap will already own ULEZ compliant cars anyway. The people most likely to be affected by the new regulations are those with large expensive diesel powered Chelsea tractors.

Our cars are 10, and 18 years old respectively and both are ULEZ compliant. It was not a feature we looked for, but when the subject was made newsworthy we checked and found that both cars complied.

Twenty year old petrol cars are not terribly reliable though and if you are on a low income you don't have the money for repair bills. It''s not like the old days when you could do repairs yourself because the manufacturers don't make them very repairable! The people driving Chelsea tractors probably have the money to change their motors as they still cost a fortune to run. The poor do not.

Casdon

Modern diesels with particulate filters and using ad blue are no more polluting than petrol engines, and they do more miles to the gallon though Katie59, so there’s no reason for that to be the case. I did a lot of research before I bought mine because I was concerned about the environmental impact. I’m on the fence about what to do next time. I’ve got friends with hybrid cars, but because we live in a mountainous area the electric mileage isn’t that good. It’s a tough call at the moment.

Mountainous areas are great for regenerative braking.

Callistemon21

Casdon

I was unconvinced, so I looked it up.
www.thecarexpert.co.uk/are-electric-car-fires-really-that-common/#:~:text=There%20are%20very%20good%20reasons,fires%2C%20leading%20to%20overheating).
I can however see the risk if batteries are left on for hours longer than they are recommended to fully charge.

My question is, how are we going to dispose of them when they are no longer viable?

Car batteries are being repurposed for solar energy.

I’m not knocking diesels but if you do a lot of short journeys the particulate filters do cause problems, more hybrids are now on the market and seem to be selling better. I have a Yaris hybrid suits me well with short journeys to work, shops and family, no mountains here just lots of traffic jams.

I was not listening too closely, but a tv programme said that Lithium had been identified in Cornwall and would be able to supply our need for Lithium so that we are not dependant on China. Always checks and balances to consider.