I love to cruise do you?

You say Mollygo:

"^I always find it very virtue signalling when people imagine that their actions or choice of actions are superior to those of others and imagine that no one but them is making any effort^"

NB Mollygo I have dealt in facts, not conjecture, based on scientific research. I have not stated in this thread what I do to reduce my carbon footprint.

You just don't get it. All the cutting and pasting you put up here won't change our minds. Many of us enjoy cruising. We all pollute whether at home or on a ship.

Well said, Aveline. And all that cutting and pasting isn't really what this thread was about.

Northernlass

Mollygo
I find it disarming, and I'm saddened, that this thread seems to have turned into point scoring. It wasn't my intention to provoke you into such response.
🤣🤣🤣
Sorry for the disbelieving laugh.
This thread is about who likes cruising, or who doesn’t like cruising, not who thinks they’re the most perfect at considering the environment (whilst still probably using fossil fuels to power the electricity their device needs in order to let them lecture).

Aveline

You just don't get it. All the cutting and pasting you put up here won't change our minds. Many of us enjoy cruising. We all pollute whether at home or on a ship.

This sort of attitude is scary . The corals around Florida are all dying because of the ocean overheating . Many massive cruise ships start in Florida . It’s not the only reason but it is a contributing factor . Saying I will cruise no matter is very sad . No hope for the grandchildren with an attitude like this .

Aveline your argument that we pollute whether at home or on a ship is spurious. And ignorant of the facts.

And I agree with Syracute that your attitude is scary.

Mollygo you didn't have to deviate from the OP. It seems you've engineered an arena to make personal attacks on someone who had the best intentions, and who is aware of the consequences of our choices.

I studied Natural Sciences, specalised in Earth Sciences, and gained a PhD in this field.

Your assumption that no one but you is aware . . . and your personal attacks . . . whilst still using fossil fuels and possibly scarce resources like lithium to power a device to make your attacks, evidently areas not covered in your PhD, are amusingly hypocritical Northernlass.

Northern Lass Your methods of encouraging people to think environmentally, whether I think you right or wrong, are counter productive, you raise hackles and leave one with a strong desire to run round the house turning all the lights and the heating on.

As with all those at the more extreme end of the climate movement, you fail to realise that shouting and hectoring people just puts their backs up. It is encouragement and example, and the disincentive of price that moves people to change their attitudes and behaviour.

In my field my views aren’t at the more extreme end of the climate movement, as they’re based on hard evidence; I accept they may be as far the general public are concerned.

Just one question: what kind of future do you want for yourselves and your descendants, and how might you achieve that?

Just one question Northernlass.

Do you want to have a positive or a negative effect on those you address?

Currently you seem to choose the latter.

I see Northernlass as the little voice of reason - within the swarm of self-entitled and downright selfish 'I'll do what I want!' crowd.

Those who seem to love their families but will never take responsibility, change their ways or cope with any minor inconvenience to protect them just puzzle me.

We cannot wind back the clock to the Stone Age.

The world has shrunk, we need technology, we travel for business and leisure, goods are constantly moving around our seas on giant container ships.

Rather than banning and blaming, the scientific community should be looking of ways to make these less damaging to the planet.

We do what we can at home, solar panels, water harvesting system, recycling etc, but when you have family scattered across the globe there is no way I am not going to visit them.

GrannyGravy13

We cannot wind back the clock to the Stone Age.

The world has shrunk, we need technology, we travel for business and leisure, goods are constantly moving around our seas on giant container ships.

Rather than banning and blaming, the scientific community should be looking of ways to make these less damaging to the planet.

We do what we can at home, solar panels, water harvesting system, recycling etc, but when you have family scattered across the globe there is no way I am not going to visit them.

Well put GG13. My family is also widespread.

Reading about efforts made by GNs to use less water, less electricity etc. are informative and encouraging without being lecturing.
Your point
Rather than banning and blaming, the scientific community should be looking of ways to make these less damaging to the planet. is likely to be more productive for the future than a rant about the evils of cruising, or cars, or visiting family.

We all, when posting on GN are those described by Hetty as refusing to
change their ways or cope with any minor inconvenience like refusing to use devices that need scarce and potentially climate damaging resources to produce and operate for communication with others.

GrannyGravy13

We cannot wind back the clock to the Stone Age.

The world has shrunk, we need technology, we travel for business and leisure, goods are constantly moving around our seas on giant container ships.

Rather than banning and blaming, the scientific community should be looking of ways to make these less damaging to the planet.

We do what we can at home, solar panels, water harvesting system, recycling etc, but when you have family scattered across the globe there is no way I am not going to visit them.

I could not agree more.
My daughter and her children are visiting us from New Zealand in October and we will be returning to New Zealand at the end of December for a six week visit.
I will never abandon my child and her children.

Northernlass Let me put it more simply. It is not what you say, but the way that you say it.

I have very little argument with any of your views, but your way of putting them across raises my hackles. I do not like being hectored.

You also make absolutely no positive suggestions about what alternatives people who normally go on cruises should consider, ie not hiking holidays, working on worthy causes, but things that older, possible not very active people would enjoy equally.

Are you sure you are not a climate denier posing as a climate change worker? You way of going about things would suggest that.

Grannygravy13
Scientists have been working for decades to address climate change issues. Unfortunately world leaders who attend Conference of Parties (COP) haven't made much headway in really addressing the issues; Dieter Helm has described COP as a "jamboree". The action(s) that need to be taken to have a marked impact on climate change are probably too 'unpalatable' for most of us to adopt - and I include myself in this as my family is widespread too.

As Dave MacKay said, we have to think big. Metaphorically speaking recycling our milk bottles and jam jars is, of course, valuable but it's not going to save the planet.

Hetty58 Thank you - and Syracute.

Syracute this link may interest you as it's about the Florida coral reefs

theconversation.com/the-heroic-effort-to-save-floridas-coral-reef-from-devastating-ocean-heat-210974?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Imagine%20095%20Newsy&utm_content=Imagine%20095%20Newsy+CID_72344f7185cf77f6699089d75a8456bd&utm_source=campaign_monitor_uk&utm_term=The%20heroic%20effort%20to%20save%20Floridas%20coral%20reef%20from%20devastating%20ocean%20heat

Northernlass

Grannygravy13
Scientists have been working for decades to address climate change issues. Unfortunately world leaders who attend Conference of Parties (COP) haven't made much headway in really addressing the issues; Dieter Helm has described COP as a "jamboree". The action(s) that need to be taken to have a marked impact on climate change are probably too 'unpalatable' for most of us to adopt - and I include myself in this as my family is widespread too.

As Dave MacKay said, we have to think big. Metaphorically speaking recycling our milk bottles and jam jars is, of course, valuable but it's not going to save the planet.

I agree with you that COP is a jamboree.

Living on an island we have wave power but there is always objections on the grounds of damage to wild life. I am jot a fan of nuclear power, as I feel the waste is more destructive than the gains. Wind and solar seem to be the way forward.

Someone in power has to take what will be an objectionable decision but it cannot be a unilateral decision, it has to be worldwide.

I agree Grannygravy13 that worldwide cooperation is the way forward.

Northernlass

Hetty58 Thank you - and Syracute.

Syracute this link may interest you as it's about the Florida coral reefs

theconversation.com/the-heroic-effort-to-save-floridas-coral-reef-from-devastating-ocean-heat-210974?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Imagine%20095%20Newsy&utm_content=Imagine%20095%20Newsy+CID_72344f7185cf77f6699089d75a8456bd&utm_source=campaign_monitor_uk&utm_term=The%20heroic%20effort%20to%20save%20Floridas%20coral%20reef%20from%20devastating%20ocean%20heat

Thank you Northern Lass. Sadly, I read recently that most of the coral planted by volunteers was lost this year with the overheated waters off the Keys. They will now have to start over again. If people here think the cruise ships don’t home the environment then there is literally no hope for the reefs or the oceans.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Syracute your posts show what a sensitive person you are.

Grannygravy the problems with wave power have absolutely nothing to do with damage to wildlife. That objection as been brought forward in respect of tidal barrages, like the Severn barrage, but tidal power has nothing to do with wave power.

In the last two days I have heard, on R4, the latest programme in the 'Life Scientific' where Frank Furedi interviewed Debra Grieves, Professor of Ocean Engineering and Head of the School of Engineering, Computing and Mathematics at the University of Plymouth. In the programme she discussed all the technical and physical problems that have made the development of wave power so difficult. Itis really worth listening to. I am sure you would enjoy it.

Coincidentally yesterday on You & Yours, R4, cruising was discussed. I haven’t listened to it yet; this is from the programme’s website:

On Tuesday I did listen to Jim Al-Khalili interview Deborah Greaves on R4’s The Life Scientific. It’s such a good programme