Muslims like us

I just saw it on catch up. What a fascinating programme. Interesting that they were all pretty appalled at Abdul Haqq. However, Mehreen, the glamorous teacher ended up feeling sorry for him and feeling that he had potential mental health problems. Others were exasperated but quite kind to him. Saba (the older lady) was quite right I think that there were race issues too for the black muslim men. I didn't understand why she was shouted down. She's a convert too of course but seemed a wise woman.
I know all sorts of Muslims. I was very struck in Bangladesh at the fury with which my friend (a local lady) reacted to what she called 'those covered women'. She was surprised to see me get chatting to one sitting next to me. My friend said it was 'fair enough in the desert but this isn't the desert.'
Interestingly I didn't see many 'covered women' there and the one I got chatting to was on a visit from London.

PS I do know a stay-at-home Muslim dad his wife is the high-powered bread winner!!

Yes, it was a good mix of different people. What I didn't see represented (or did I miss this?) was a representative of the Muslim business woman (or man come to that) or those Muslim women (and men) in high-powered and well-paid jobs.

The Muslim women I know either own their own businesses or are in well-pail jobs. And of course those stay-at home wives wouldn't have been appearing anyway. I wonder if it was sheer coincidence that the two angriest men were the black Muslims. The 'comedian' (ha!) did say it's a double whammy being a black Muslim.

But all in all I thought this was likely to put paid to some of those stereotypes on the 'average' Muslim in the UK,

I think it was a reasonable mix of people. I know (see and meet and talk to) several muslims in the UK and some are very modern in their manner and dress and others are not. Some laugh and smile a lot and dance and sing and others are more somber and soberly dressed. Have never met (to my knowledge) anyone with radical views. Mostly just ordinary people at work or with their families.

I thought they came across as a group of random people (ok maybe picked as one was gay, one old, some young, men, women etc) but they all seemed really appalled at the thoughts of the one extremist.

ah yes- I was talking about a sample being representative of Muslims in UK- not worldwide.

granjura - as someone else wrote, Muslims are as varied as different types of Christians and Jews. And probably other religious groups.
I've been to stay twice in Kuwait, and was amazed at the range of women's dress. From glamorous uncovered hair, jeans etc, to the full black coverage, even gloves.
And physical appearance - there were some with fresh pink and white complexions - my 'guide' said , 'they're the Persians.'
Then you have all the oriental Muslims - there are millions of them.

thanks petra, didn't know.

How many of you know Muslim women with skimpy tops and loads of make-up. What a strange, non representative sample.

granjura If your referring to Abdul Haqq is has already been arrested and tried for attempting to go to Syria with forged papers and terrorist material.

I wathced last night- and I kept thinking - how on earth did they pick that bunch- as several of them we really not 'typical' at all and not representative of the many Muslims I know in the UK.

One of them really made me quite concerned- and I kept thinking I hope he and his friends are being shadowed.

Trying to imagine how the equivalent would be like to introduce Christians in a Muslim country- if they had picked such extremes. Even Catholics come in so many guises, Anglicans can be High or Low Church, pro or anti women in the Clergy, add a Methodist and Baptist from a traditional background, a Jehovah's witness, A Plymouth Brethren, and a Salvation Army- and see what happens.

Saw second episode last night. Not so easy to watch, so much disagreement between them, but it came across as real. I think the programme was a very worth while subject to address. We are a multicultural country, yet few of us actually have much if any day to day real contact with people of different faiths/beliefs. Even if a bit unsettling in places, this was a good place to start.

I am glad I watched it, but it has scared me and I am concerned about the future if those people are truly representative of the Muslim culture. One was a religious fanatic and wished us dead, the comedian was anything but. His ranting and outbursts if you didn't do things his way or believed what he did was frightening. One of the women was careful what she said but she made it obvious what she thought about non Muslims. The older woman was lovely and it would be reassuring if there were more like her.

Nine o'clock bbc2

Which Channel, what time, please?

I didn't know about the programme, sorry I missed it. Will watch part two today. Silverlining48 hits the nail on the head- Muslims come in almost as many guises as Christians- some a lot more extreme than others.

The elderly woman Saba did say converts were often zealous when she was talking to one of the other women. She was not impressed one bit by Abdul and made it quite clear to him.

The ostracisation happens in many Christian groups too. Happened to my father, a good Catholic, as he married my mother, a divorced Protestant, as one exemple. A young friend of mine who come from a Jehovah's witness family has lost all contact with his family because of it- another good friend the same with her Plymouth Brethren family- same for friends from Orthodox Jewish families. My nieces have no contact with their aunt because they agreed to have their dad cremated as per his wishes- and the staunch Catholic aunt disagreed. On and on, and on. Ostracization in strict religious circles happens all the time- and as discussed previously- exists in many tribes, and has done so since early man, including Neanderthals.

I watched and found it very interesting, and will be watching tonight for second episode. this programme shows the huge variety of beliefs and attitudes highlighting the differences, i.e. muslims are not all the same, any more than christians and Jews and any other religious group are the same.

One of my friends was married to a lovely Muslim man but, eventually, he became more and more radical in his views. It caused their marriage to break down and he now has rejected his children too. It's very sad when that happens and has left his family bewildered.

He has now married again to a much younger woman who is not allowed out on her own. From being very good friends, he now blanks me if I see him.

Out of all the Muslims I know, he is the only 'radical' one. But, as you say, we wouldn't know or meet others generally.

Louche

Lucky I'm hoping that's a dying breed. As more of our Muslims are home bred, go to our schools and are out there in the community adopting western culture I think we'll see more and more like the women in the TV programme. Having said that there was an elderly woman and a delightfully louch middle aged woman who seemed to give lie to the stereotype of Muslim women.
Certainly those I know personally are more like those depicted last night, though of course I'd never get to meet the others I suppose.

I missed that programme, but remember thinking does it mean Muslims like US? or Muslims LIKE us?
There are so many different kinds - eldest son's Arab friends (Kuwait) are secular Muslims - brought up to read the Koran, then becoming westernised. One is an obstetrician, he delivered our son's children.
OTOH the Muslims near us are very distant. Perhaps in their home country they feel more secure (as long as it's not in the middle of a warzone.)

It was interesting, but clearly not representative as the women who would be banned from the programme by their menfolk were of course not there! I wonder what they would have to say about Islam - and they would have needed interpreters. The women were those from integrated liberal families - I have no way of knowing how typical this is of Muslim women in Britain in general.

Yes - I agree that converts can be over-zealous as their reason for embracing a new religion might be that they need something solid in their life. But, to be fair to him, he was very polite to those who refused his leaflets.

I was just going to say something like that GJ. When my aunt converted to Catholicism everyone tried to avoid long conversations with her as she was very enthusiastic and preachy (if that's a word!) I'm not sure it's about being lost, though, I think it's similar to being newly in love!

But we live in more dangerous times now.

Recent converts to any religion or sects usually are because they feel alienated and/or lost ... and they always are over-zealous. Nothing to do with Islam as such, but the nature of religion.

Abdul is a recent convert to Islam having been brought up a Christian. Some of these converts are over-zealous and potentially radicals.