Howard's End

I am certainly finding Margaret and Helen's brother annoying - is he ill? He just seems to droop about all the time. Maybe he needs a good dose of syrup of figs - that'd sort him out!!

gullygranny yes, exactly my feelings too.
DanniRae yes, or a job!

I’m starting to find them all annoying. Isn’t Tibby a student, Dannirae? They seem to spend more time at home than anywhere else! I must say I can’t see why Margaret hasn’t seen right through Mr Wilcox. I would have run a mile by now.

Oh Greyduster I don't think I know what you mean about Mr Wilcox. I must be dim - can you explain, please?

I know what you mean Greyduster but I think she feels that it would be lovely for somebody else to take charge of things for a change, as she has been doing this for most of her life.She has no illusions about his nature, but he will be kind to her and generous, and to her family.There is also the social expectation that a woman isn’t complete until she is married and the status that comes with it, especially to a very wealthy man.Plus she wants to have sex with him ( that always helps)

Yes there is always that!

I thought the point about Mr Wilcox was that he has brought home to Margaret the reality (and perhaps the hypocrisy) of her own situation. Her income comes from people like him and although she tries to improve social conditions she benefits from his actions. She also thinks he has a hidden more caring side. And the sex of course!

The poor clerk guy [Mr Blast?] is SO Dickensian.

An unsettling ending.
Not what I expected even though I've read it a couple of times in the past.

Never read it but now feel I should! Did I miss an episode when Helen became pregnant or was it so subtle that I missed it?

I was a bit confused, too! Still, it was very nice to look at.

Watched the final part last night and still not really sure what happen. Who was the father of the little boy does any one know the answer?? confused.com!!! lol

I was confused too, especially about the pregnancy, but then I was only half watching. I still enjoyed it.

I assume that the little boy was Bast’s child? DH said “have we missed an episode?” I ended up admiring Margaret immensely for her stand against Mr Wilcox’s attempts to have Helen removed, presumably to an asylum? I wanted to thump him! As SueDonim said, it was beautifully filmed.

I thought she said Leonard Bast was the father.
I assume the fact of the son going to prison caused Henry's fall into health decline.

I assume Mr Blast / Blaste was the father. Too many gaps and jumps. I shall have to read the book. DH couldn't watch it as Mr Wilcox infuriated him too much!

I also felt as if I had missed an episode. Some uncomfortable attitudes and practices were highlighted, I wonder how many Margaret’s there were to take a stand . It left me a bit unsettled.

Yes - Mr Bast was the father; hence Wilcox's son bashing him up (egad sir! - deflower a woman would you!?) and inadvertently killing him. It highlighted the double standards current at the time very well. To us it just seems barmy that he would take it upon himself to defend the honour of his father's wife's sister! - especially as there seems to be no suggestion that she did not cooperate at the time of the conception!

I got slightly confused at the end when Wilcox's family were all saying goodbye to him as though he was about to drop dead - anyone know what that was about?

I have just watched last night's episode and feel very confused?? I got that Leonard Bast was the father (eventually) but one minute Margaret and Helen were going to Germany and M was finished with Mr Wilcox - next they all seem to be living at Howards End (I presume). Why was Mr W saying goodbye to all his family? Are they all going to live together happily ever after? Is he ill?
BTW I think Leonard had his wicked way with Helen when they all stayed at the hotel after she took Leonard and Jacky to the daughter's wedding.

That's what I got as well-DanniRae -the hotel bit.
I think Mr W was clearing things with his family. He had obviously suffered a major blow and changed his lifestyle. I thought it showed how attitudes have changed so much. Mr W's view of getting the sister locked up would have been the accepted one for that time and long afterward. Thought the acting was great and it was so well filmed. Brilliant!

What a mess ! I haven't seen it yet but I am prepared! Glad it's recorded so I can replay it if I don't understand something. Think it shows its not a good idea to mix with woolly headed liberal intellectuals. Either if you are the landed gentry or the working class.

It seemed acceptable for Mr Wilcox to have an extra marital relationship with a young working class woman, but his family is shocked when a respectable working class man makes an educated woman pregnant. Charles Wilcox then defends the honour of his family!
I was amazed that Margaret did not stand up to her husband more robustly - for example about where they were going to live. This was the era of the Suffragette movement and Margaret would, I'm sure, support the principles of equality for women.

Leonard and Helen had sex in the bit where she was in their rooms and Jacky went to bed because she was ill. Helen and Leonard stood by the window and Helen symbolically closed the shutters. Very subtle. The reader/viewer was meant to be as much in the diary as Margaret and Tibby until the moment of revelation.
Margaret stayed with Mr Wilcox because he was a broken man and she was able to take charge again and order everything her way, including his eventual separation from his family and the claiming of Howerds End by her family.
I have always thought of it as a study of a fight for control and how Margaret wins by making others dependent upon her under the guise of love and support.

I think the 'all change' mood at the end is Forster's nod in the direction of oncoming war. Charles is in prison and the younger son (name?) expects to go to Africa. The reason Henry doubts if he will get there is that he has a feeling that war is coming - he has mentioned this previously. This signals the end of the Edwardian era.

Did I miss an episode when Helen became pregnant or was it so subtle that I missed it?
It was left to our imagination which makes a nice change from what is normally shown in the media - as Eglantine21 says, the closing of the shutters and we are left to assume that they then make love.