A very English Scandal

MawBroon copied:

^Greer, a leading feminist and author of The Female Eunuch, suggested that most rape should not be seen as a “spectacularly violent crime” but as “lazy, careless and insensitive”. She said “most rapes don’t involve any injury whatsoever,” and conflated rape with “bad sex … where there is no communication, no tenderness”
The Guardian^

This is so important. Greer is not saying that bad sex is okay but that it should not be conflated with sexual violence.What you copied earlier, MawBroon, from that book, was not bad sex it was horrific and horrifying violence. If that account was true the rapist deserved severe punishment far more than the perpetrator of bad sex.

That's correct Lazigirl.
And still living in Devon I believe.

Grannyknot
It was indeed a 'scene' from a dramatization and we do not know the exact truth of it.

There is an investigative prog BBC Four on Sunday about JT affair, and alleged attempted murder of Scott. It should be an interesting watch, 10pm.

I saw a report on Breakfast TV and Tom Mangold was being interviewed. Seems he kept a copy of the programme he made at the time which was never shown. I think this is the basis of the programme on Sunday. Seems they now think the man hired to kill Norman Scott is still alive and why the police have reopened the enquiry.

I saw it as well, Welshwife. Tom Mangold must feel vindicated seeing as he was told to destroy all evidence (VHS tape) of his interview with Scott.

Good for him for keeping it.

Exactly Merlot.

If Preston’s book is correct about the initial brutality, why did Scott stay? Was it because he had nowhere to go? He is portrayed at times as being rather naive and simple yet he stole the letters from his former boss and gave them to Jeremy before the affair started, which suggests some deviousness. I don’t think we hav3 the full picture of his character.

"However the prejudice that members of the lower orders may be raped or otherwise oppresssed is wrong , as I'm sure most of us agree."

I'd imagine most of the 'upper orders' might too. People born into wealth aren't necessarily without a moral compass. There are many at - street level - for want of a better phrase, who are completely and entirely amoral.

Even today there are users from all walks of life who are careless with the feelings of others.

I agree with M0nica that had Scott not been besotted with Thorpe - he said he 'loved him' long after their affair had finished - JT would not have been hounded or have had to think about ridding himself of a pest always about to out him. His wanting to kill the thorn in his side was not a good idea - and Thorpe WAS very cavalier about wanting him dead.

I must read more about the case. Reginald Maudling's name popped up in the last episode. These politicians are a blast from the foggy past of my youth. I had no idea he was connected with the cover-up.

paddyann Mrs May supposedly "lost" ALL the files with details of peadophiles who work IN Westminster and past members of parliament

So, according to you, known paedophiles had files detailing their activities, and those people continued to work in Westminster.

You are saying Mrs May had a list of kiddy fiddlers, went through the filing cabinets looking for files marked 'paedophile', and allowed them to carry on working.

As if..

That is a yet ANOTHER very serious and libellous anti-Conservative accusation from you Paddyann.

I see you use 'supposedly' before your outrageous slur.

Anyone of us know of paedophiles who might work amongst us? Nope, thought not. However, they will be known to your bosses and there will be files of their vile activities kept with your HR department, according to Paddyann

Why don't you inform the police of her 'supposed' cover up?

We all know there is an old boys network - obvious in the Thorpe drama - that still exists and people get away with heinous crimes, but your suggestion that Westminster abounds with known paedophiles who've had their records deliberately destroyed is a complete fabrication. I cannot imagine one serving politician - and some have proved themselves to be very dodgy - who would cover for a paedophile.

Well I watched the first episode ( because I like Hugh Grant) and quite enjoyed it. Will see the rest on catch up . I have heard of Jeremy Thorpe but I thought it was fiction and had no idea it was based on true events !

Does anyone think that there is a production company brave enough to put a film together about Lord Robert Boothby and the Kray twins?
Maybe a step too far.

I think 'brave' is the operative word there Petra

I know the Krays are no more, but.......

The drama is only ‘based on’ a true story. It isn’t a documentary.

I knew it wasn’t a documentary Grandma70s but I didn’t realise it was based on “actual” events .

google the lost files,lost when Mrs May was Home secretary .Its FACT .The police know all about it but apparently the files were either lost or "unintentionally " destroyed and they were the details of a paedophile ring within the houses of Parliament .TBH I would expect nothing less of a tory than to protect their own ..its how it has always been.hence the inquality in the UK ...the rich get richer and the poor dont count .I'm out of this right wing led discussion .

Aaah Paddyann are you saying that this isn’t the same under any government ? Because in my experience it doesn’t matter who’s in power “the rich get richer and the poor get poorer” .

It will be interesting to see the Panorama programme tomorrow ( I think). I think Justice in this country is a very movable feast and even more so when the victims are overwhelmingly working class or ‘not one of us’ - the number of cases which families have had to fight to get justice - and very often in the face of police cover up and corruption and protecting their own and/or the establishment should be a national disgrace but it isn’t.

And it’s getting even worse now with the legal aid cuts which are deliberately designed by this sainted government of ours to deny access to justice to the poor. But then it’s their own fault they can’t afford it isn’t it?

The Jeremy Thorpe Scandal is on BBC 4 tomorrow at 10 pm. The write up in The I says:

"In 1979 reporter Tom Mangold led an investigation into the trial of Jeremy Thorpe for conspiracy to murder. Convinced that the former Liberal Party leader would be found guilty, a special post-trial programme was prepared but was scrapped for legal reasons when the jury absolved the defendants. Copies of Mangold's forensic unearthing of a cover-up were ordered to be destroyed but the reporter kept one and it's shown here in entirety."

Sounds interesting.

Maw broom your so right. Gay use to mean just that in my younger days. Does anyone know how/why the word gay became adopted to refer to homosexual's?

Eloethan do you have a link for the Tom Mangold report. I would like to read it. Sounds interesting.

I don't think the power relationship between Scott and Thorpe could possibly be seen as having been on an equal footing.

Sexual predators target people who are very obviously vulnerable. In this particular case, Norman Scott was very young - only 20 years old - when he met Jeremy Thorpe. He was doing a fairly low status, low paid job and relied on his job for somewhere to live. The first episode also referenced his mental health problems when he said he was taking largactyl. If the depiction of NS is correct - and I assume the writer/programme makers have made at least some attempt to research the issue of his character - he also appeared to be extremely naive and emotionally/intellectually vulnerable.

Whether or not JT charmed, bullied, tricked or forced NS to have sex with him, is important but, as with many sexual allegations, difficult to prove. But surely the real issue is whether JT arranged to have him killed. The dog was shot - I presume how this was explained away in Court will be in the final episode tomorrow and the old documentary being shown on BBC 4 might be quite illuminating on these issues.

I think it was totally wrong that homosexuality was a criminal issue and I have every sympathy for those men (and women) who had to suppress their sexuality or live a double life. However, if it is true that JT did behave in the way portrayed, I do not feel sorry for him.

I totally agree with you Eloethan couldn’t have put it better

Paddyann wrote:

Do you still all believe that the paedophile scandal in Westminster has no foundation? The scene where the statement by Norman Scott was passed upwards and then put into a safe by MI5 was very telling.Did Teresa May REALLY lose all the details of paedophiles in Westminster or is she, like they did back then just covering their tracks ?

This is why the story is relevant today even taking into consideration that homosexuality is now okay. The story is more than a real life whodunnit.