A very English Scandal

Non taken Sparklefizz - I did meet a lot of sex workers of all ages and genders.

Gosh "Iam64* - I read your post and thought you were saying you'd been a sex worker for 35 years. Then I realised you were using the initials SW to represent social worker. Some confusion there on my part. No offence intended.

That's right Suzie. It is about level of intimacy. Sex is very intimate. I have heard that sex workers will refuse to kiss the client's mouth or face for the reason that the sex worker is able to separate body and soul as far as their vagina is body, but the soul connotations of kissing cannot be willed away.

The sex worker may well truly like or feel fond of her client but any professional, not only sex workers, should keep an emotional distance.

I didn’t say they were sinners. I don’t think medics have to employ the same level of intimacy with their clients in terms of their own bodies.

Nurses and doctors too have to intimately service smelly people.Nurse and doctors too get paid for servicing smelly people. Some patients are not very nice people apart from common humanity.

The thing about sex workers is that they do no formal training , are seldom well educated people, and are often forced to work as they do. Sex workers' conditions of service should be as respectable and as safe as those of other low paid workers .

There is still a debate about whether low paid workers should be required to separate bodies and souls , however many workers from all professions separate body and soul vis MPs and local authority workers who cover up scandals. Sex workers are not the only professional sinners.

I'm with you suzied. You're absolutely right about the level of risk in sex work being much higher than in the police, social work or teaching. I was a sw for 35 years, never got assaulted. I don't know any sex workers who managed even short periods without being assaulted.
There is, imo, a lot of nonsense talked about sex work.

I don't think sex work is an acceptable career choice which you can compare with being a teacher or police officer. I certainly wouldn't like any relative of mine to be a sex worker, nor would I like any relative of mine to employ a sex worker. It is surrounded with criminal elements for a start. There is a high level of substance abuse connected with it, plus the risks of being assaulted or murdered are , I would suggest, higher than that of a teacher. Even the so-called "high class" trade who may earn a large amount of money is not really something you would boast to your grandchildren about, and the workers are often controlled by "minders" (aka pimps) who will take their cut in exchange for "protection". Its not really a "career" with much progression or longevity either. Plus can you imagine the reality - having to service drunk, smelly, foul mouthed men for hours really worthy of the term "career"? yuk

Me too, Julima!

Jalima, your comment made me laugh outloud!!! ???

Jalima, naughty, naughty, naughty ?

a low grade manual job
Well, that's the first time I've heard it called that.

I would have thought some of the work must be very skilled.

MRD may well be an example for how a woman who took up a low grade manual job such as sex work managed to become well paid.

I always thought Randy Mice knew exactly what she was doing. A short while after leaving school she went back to visit, poodle in tow, and was praised to the assembled girls. The headmistress told them that this ex-pupil was a successful London model and an example to them all.

Eleothan, I didn’t mean boxing is acceptable to me, I think it’s vile,
You are so right that boxers do not come from wealthy families, they use their bodies as do girls who choose to be nightclub hostesses etc.

It's interesting that you mention boxing anniebach and that you are of the opinion, as are most people, that it is an acceptable "sport" because the people who participate have chosen to do so.

My own feeling is that those who take up professional boxing tend not to have benefited from a good education and quite often come from very modest backgrounds. You won't find many highly educated sons of professional people on the professional boxing circuit. You may say, so what, lots of poorly educated people have a limited choice as to the jobs that are open to them, which is true. However, there are significant health implications in doing a job that will inevitably involve being punched in the head on a regular basis, for the enjoyment of others.

There are also significant health and safety implications in being involved in sex work and, whilst there are no doubt highly educated women from very comfortable backgrounds who make this choice, I think research suggests they are few and far between.

These people (both sexes) put themselves at risk of STDs which are now becoming more resistant to antibiotics.

Actually, think it’s time to admit we’ll never feel conforable with each other’s point of view on this one. I’m not flouncing but I think I’m about done with the subject now.

It is is risky to have sex or put yourself in a vulnerable position with strangers whether you are paid or unpaid. But not all sex work is like this stereotype.

Some women are vulnerable and are forced into sex work but not all. It comes down to an underlying belief that surely nobody would do this kind of work unless they had to, that comes from those who would never undertake sex work unless they were forced and project those feelings onto others.

But not everyone feels like that and to suggest that if you are a sex worker you must have been abused, coerced, that something must be wrong with you is offensive and not respectful of the choice they have made.

In regard to risk, a number of jobs are risky: the police are regularly abused, verbally and physically, medical staff often suffer abuse, the armed forces put their lives at risk. As a teacher I have been threatened several times, once with a machete, but the choice to do these jobs is not questioned. So I don’t think it is the risk element that is primarily in people’s minds when they would not like their relatives involved in sex work.

In some sex work the risk is negligible. Much, much less than any of the jobs listed above.

I wouldn’t want my grandchildren to work in the sex trade but this is about the choice , I think boxing is brutal but accept it’s their choice .

I'm with trisher in stating clearly, I don't see sex work as immoral. I don't agree with your post Eglantine, I don't share the cold and critical views you suggest are held by those of us who don't necessarily see the 'choice' of sex work as an entirely positive one.
I don't judge. I'd be unhappy if any of my grandsons, granddaughters, daughters or sons in law/partners in law chose sex work as a way of making a living. It's often risky. There are no guarantees about making enough to pay the bills. One of my sons in law runs his own business and those are the risks he takes however, those risks don't include being beaten up by clients, blackmailed, -etc.

Yes trisha, so was Mandy Rice Davies a defenceless abused girl or a girl who knew what she wanted and how to get it

I have never said ?Keeler deserved to lose her baby, all I have said is they did a job they chose , so don’t accuse me of saying things I have not said or even thought. If girls choose to be topless hostesses their choice, you want to push the ‘all these girls are victims of wealthy, powerful men. Rachman May have been wealthy but powerful ? I suppose as powerful as the Krays. Ward wealthy and powerful ? No way, the Russian ?

Mandy Rice Davies married a rich Israeli and opened a night club (in fact 3 night clubs) in Israel. Isn't she allowed to do anything? According to you she deserved everything she got, but not apparently any success.
She was 15 when she started work as a Saturday model. 17 when she met Keeler.
I am not "obsessed with rich men" I do think men who are in power and have influence shouldn't present one face to the public while behaving in an immoral and unprincipled way. And all the excuse making on this thread is the reason a culture of sexual abuse still exists at all levels in our society.
I don't see sex work as immoral Eglantine21 and if you can find where I have said I do please point it out. The immorality is with men who use vulnerable girls. Keeler was abused by her mother's lover and his friends as a teenager. In 1951 she was diagnosed as suffering from malnutrition and sent to a holiday home. At 17 she gave birth to a baby which died. But of course she was a topless dancer and deserved everything she got. The lack of compassion shown by some people astounds me

trisher, I was the first to speak of the abuse suffered by ?Keeler, no mention from you of ‘Mandy’s Candies nightclub ‘ owned by a victim of wealthy men.

Let’s stop the ‘all rich men are evil’ stuff.

Oh dear trisher your comments show you to be obsessed by ‘rich men’ ! As Annie points out, the job of the man involved is immaterial.
Profumo need not have been a politician, he need only have been a successful businessman with money to throw around which would have attracted those young women.
They didn’t want a lowly working job themselves, they wanted an easy life and if it meant sleeping around, they were fine with that.