A very English Scandal

They were both victims. I’ve said this earlier in the thread, but they were firstly the victims of an iniquitous law that outlawed homosexualty even among consenting adults. If that law had not existed, and they could just have lived peacefully as gay men, none of this need have happened.

There was a further problem for Thorpe because he was in public life. Unlike Scott, he had to hide the fact that he was gay even after the change in the law (which incidentally still did not give gay men equality with straight men at that time) because of the deep and entrenched prejudice in much of society. I am not sure whether I’m interpreting Paddyann correctly, but you seem to be suggesting Thorpe could have lived as a gay man if he had given up his job. Why on earth should anyone have had to do that?

Thorpe was a victim firstly of the law and then of society’s backward attitudes. As I said before, what a waste of a talented man .

I also don’t see him as a victim yes it was different times and homosexuals were treated badly BUT he was willing to have someone commit murder on his behalf and that’s no victim I agree totally with paddyannes post

I'm sorry I disagree,Thorpe was in no way a victim.He used his power to control people ,arrange a murder and managed to duck out of the consequences.Thats not a victim .Thats a man without morals .He could have admitted his homosexuality or lived as gay BUT he couldn't have done that and enjoyed the lifestyle he had ...and of course that was the key to the whole mess.He wanted to have his cake AND eat it .The true victim was Norman Scott who was gullable and naive and deserved to be treated with respect......

The Mangold Panorama programme was an excellent finale to the three Thorpe episodes. I enjoyed the interview he did with Norman Scott. Scott seems in a better emotional state than he was as a younger man, I certainly hope so. Being able to laugh at bungled and hopeless attempts to murder you takes some humour. Scott seemed relieved that the story is finally being told and believed.

Grandma70, in what way do you believe Thorpe to have been a victim. Is it because homosexuality was illegal?

I have no doubt that Thorpe was a victim.

I’m still not happy about this sad story being exploited as entertainment. Still uncomfortable. I couldn’t resist watching it for the performances, but I’m glad it’s over.

Day6, I plan to watch the Panorama on Thorpe this evening. I didn't know about the police preparing a statement for the shooter. In that case, yes corruption which wasn't the case with C Smith.
One of our (adult) children and partner called yesterday, they asked what we'd been watching in the evening. When I outlined the Thorpe drama, one of them asked who wrote it. To say they were staggered to hear this unfolded in our life time, they were stunned.

That's what I wondered too Iam64, the plot to kill was Thorpe's of course, but given different times and different attitudes, and of course, a change in the law, then Thorpe would have been free to have his relationship with Norman. I did admire his second wife, and the lady played by Michelle Dotrice was probably the best thing that ever happened to Norman; she supported him, gave him a home, didn't moralise. All round a great drama with a very well selected cast.

No brickbats from me Jalima . Just curious to know in what respect you think Thorpe was a victim?

I too was surprised to see how Michele Dotrice had aged - she will forever be Frank Spencer's wife -
which is what we all do!
I was thinking that she was the little girl in Mary Poppins, but that was her sister Karen.

I think that Jeremy Thorpe was a victim too.

I will await the brickbats.

I too was totally surprised at Michelle Doltrice
when you haven’t seen someone from about age 25/30 to suddenly 68 you re going to be surprised surely and you wont recognise them, that’s all, nothing wrong with that grumpa, no ones says no she looks bad just naturally very different Some people just look an older version of themselves, some change hugely I have a couple of school friends I hadn’t seen for 60 years one looks exactly the same as she did the other one I can’t see anything of her original features, build, hair at all

Just seen the last episode. Thought it was very clever drama that made you sympathise with both sides or at least understand why it happened.
Can't get the theme tune out of my head.

Iam64, did you see the documentary afterwards? The chap who originally supplied the gun, who was in on the Scott murder plot but passed on the job to someone else (iirc) was asked at the time of the scandal to go to a police station of his choosing, at a time convenient to him, to sign another statement, one created by the police. His original statement must have implicated Thorpe in some way. The new one, composed by the police, let the gun seller off the hook, so he avoided any sort of prosecution. It cleared him of any involvement but wiped JT off the record too.

That was blatantly corrupt.

Many senior officers were exposed when interviewed as doing a poor job or being guided by assumptions rather than facts.

The Tom Mangold documentary was supposedly destroyed. It exposed so much suspicious activity at the time. BBC bosses also pulling strings (or having their strings pulled) by not running it?? Thankfully Mangold kept a copy. I was shocked and angry on Scott's behalf.

I was only surprised because in my head Michele Dotrice only had one role. I see her face in Some Mother's Do 'Ave 'Em, the way she looked back in the '70s. It was not a criticism of ageing. I was surprised when I realised who the actress was, that's all. We all do it, grow old, if we are lucky. I don't look like I did 40 years ago either! Sadly.

Why is it surprising to discover that Hugh Grant can act? Just because he was typecast for some time after Four Weddings doesn't mean that he wasn't acting; it's what casting directors do.

And why shouldn't Michele Doctrine look her age (69)? And perhaps she was made up to look especially motherly.

Day 6, I don’t know enough about Thorpe to know if the police did cover it up. Mi5 and special branch were mentioned. They covered up the Cyril Smith allegations and the police attempt to prosecute him was overruled as “not in the public interests”. I wonder if the same happened here.
It’s long been rumoured/alleged that it suited some to have MPs in debt to them when particular issues were under discussion

I wonder if it was written by the same person who composed the music for Last Tango

I thought exactly the same thing Iam64

What a cracking drama. I really enjoyed it. I was too young or too busy to pay much notice to the Thorpe scandal at the time and although I was aware of it I didn't appreciate all it's twists and turns.

Plaudits to the whole cast from me. Hugh Grant's Thorpe was totally convincing and he portrayed him brilliantly, displaying all his mannerisms. I too was surprised to see how Michele Dotrice had aged - she will forever be Frank Spencer's wife - but what a supportive and lovely woman she portrayed.

Poor Norman Scott. I watched the documentary after the last episode and the real Norman seemed genuinely nice, and sensitive. What a miscarriage of justice he suffered. I was astonished by the police cover up, and by the totally unfair way in which the judge summed up the trial before sending away the jury to decide Thorpe's fate. What huge lengths people with power went to in order to allow Thorpe to wriggle free.

Bessel came across as a thoroughly shifty man, both in the drama and the documentary.

I wonder, with the miscarriage of justice coming to light, if Norman Scott is likely to be compensated?

I knew nothing of the 2nd Mrs Thorpe and I've found the information here very interesting. I know it was a drama but, I did feel there was real affection and warmth between Marion and Jeremy.
I'm in no way defending his lies, manipulation etc but this drama did have me reflecting on whether it could have been different twenty years later. Not the threats to kill of course, just the fact they'd had an affair. I'd have disapproved of the power imbalance to be sure but not of homosexuality.

and Anniebach

sorry, meant to mention M0nica and Grandma70s who have posted about Marion Stein.

Tue 05-Jun-18 10:55:59
I'm glad someone has posted some facts about Marion Stein because I was going to post something similar.
It is to her credit that, after enduring her first husband's infidelity, she stayed with Jeremy Thorpe despite all and cared for him until his death.

No maryeliza, she married into the aristocracy, or one could argue, the Royal Family as her first MIL was Princess Mary - she was in fact from a Jewish family which fled from Hitler in 1938.

Great drama. Fantastic to see the two actors Hugh Grant and Ben Wishaw who were both great. Possibly a bit light hearted but how else could you treat a story that if you think about it exposed MPs, the intelligence services and the police as unprincipled, biased and corrupt.

As for Hugh Grant acting, having seen him giving very short shrift to someone who was sending him up some years ago, imo the roles he played in those rom coms was also acting. Not the real HG at all!

Yes!

David Steele.
Me thinks he doth protest too much

Gill, what is it with David Steele ? Is he a total innocent, he simply can be. Is he duplicitous or is he amxious to protect his own reputation? I don’t know anyone else who says we should be careful what we say about Cyril because nothing is proved and the inquiry isn’t yet completed.
The police officers involved are consistent in saying they believed the young men, sent the papers to the DPP but were visited by special branch and Mi5/ who told them they’d signed the official secrets act, never to speak of this. The same pattern was repeated in different police areas. Just as with Thorpe , a cover up.