The Dirty War on the NHS

Bingo don't wax too lyrical about health care in France. Whilst it is good in patches there are the same problems here as in UK. Lack of GPs especially in rural areas. Standards of hospital care are poor in some places. It's very difficult to get an eye test as Opthamology Departments are booked solid and opticians here are only just starting to do very basic eye tests. However my husband has had excellent treatment over the last 12 years and saw the same Consultant at each appointment and hosp admission. Swings and roundabouts.

bingo I'm on a diabetes forum where many of the posters are in the US. For many of them, cost is a major consideration whether they take the best medication for them. In the UK, all diabetes medication is free.

Trisher, you’re right of course, I just hope things improve for all of us. We all need the NHS. As part of my pre op assessment, I’ve just discovered my ECG was abnormal. I have been given an appointment in a weeks time for further investigation. Quite frightening, but on this, the NHS has acted quickly. Our NHS is precious, I hope that more money will be put in quickly.

maddyone I wishI was as hopeful as you. What I see on GN is lots of people knocking the service and suggesting other ideas. It brings to mind the quote which was not actually Nye Bevan's but from a TV play "The NHS will survive as long as there's folk with faith left to fight for it." Sadly I think those folk are being steadily depleted.

I am not an expert on medical costs in countries where fees are charged - but I am on facebook group for people with Vertigo conditions such as BPPV. Most are in USA. They seem to get much better treatment than in UK and it seems the cost is less than going privately here e.g. many initial private consultations for skin cancer in London are £250 whereas in US they can be as low as $85. In France, where taxes are high, one still has to pay something for many treatments/doctors but then you can get refunded by State. France's health care is very good.

Trisher, you may be right in saying some governments are not as committed as others, I think that recent government may have been guilty of this, but I feel that things are going to improve in the next few years. But overall I do think there is a commitment by all governments to retain the NHS as it would be political suicide to do anything else. And this is the problem, unlike many European countries, we steadfastly refuse to consider a different model. Other countries operate an insurance/state model which apparently delivers a far better experience for the patient. None of us want a USA model, but we do want a better service. I’ve been waiting for almost a year for a surgery which will reduce my pain but is not essential. I’ve been messed about by the NHS giving me a four month deadline, then giving no information whatsoever till seven months had passed, then offering a date whilst I was on holiday, then over a phone call agreed to put me down for after the holiday but in fact apparently removing me from the list altogether (without even bothering to tell me) then eventually, after an argy bargy phone call with a supercilious bureaucrat, putting me back on the list, then giving me a date, then changing the date, then changing to any time in a three month period. Seriously, you couldn’t make it up! And that’s why I think it has to change.

The NHS has been “outsourcing” clinical and non clinical work for many years so the outside finance can be obtained on the expectation of a profit by the operator. Efficiency gains are there to be had, but the downside is that a whole new department has to ensure that targets are met and finances are controlled. So much effort is put into designing and supervising these outsourcing contracts I’m not at all sure that the patient gains anything.

bingo12 if you are able to travel have you asked to be sent to any hospital for treatment? You do not have to wait for your local hospital, you are entitled to go anywhere and in this digital age your notes can be there quicker than you can.
maddyone Incidentally, I think it’s rubbish to say the plan is to bleed the NHS dry. All governments of all colours are committed to the NHS. The problem is some are not committed to a quality service providing excellent healthcare. They wouldn't mind having poorer care for those unable to pay.

Agree with maddyone. I am waiting to get on waiting lists for 2 conditions needing hospital out patient treatment. I have been told once on one of the list the wait is 15 -18 weeks - that's for skin cancer. At GP's surgery never see same doctor twice. Have hardly used NHS in last 30 years - now find it quite bad. I have a vertigo condition GPs have just brushed aside and have had to go privately for that. Now looking for private treatment for the skin cancer as cannot get appointment on NHS and do not want to wait 18 weeks -that's in central London.

Yes SilverliningI agree with you and it will be a drip effect, bit by bit and by the next election no NHS. I don't mind paying a bit more in taxes if it going to be ring fenced for the NHS and also its not paying Richard B some vast vast profit. Health care should never be about profit.

Incidentally, I think it’s rubbish to say the plan is to bleed the NHS dry. All governments of all colours are committed to the NHS.

Experiencednotold, how right you are. The NHS needs to modernise in my opinion, the current structure doesn’t provide a wonderful service except at the extreme emergency end. Routine care, surgeries, GP services, etc are not able to provide care for British people that’s anywhere near as good or efficient as what is offered in France, Germany, Spain, Australia, and most other first world countries. I’ve even read that India’s health care is better than ours. Things need to change to make the service better for everyone, and if that means some form of insurance or charges, so be it.
I expect most of you to disagree, but the country cannot continue with a health service like this forever. And in addition, we should not be providing health care for the world, no one else does!

Yes we do have to pay more, and most people wouldn’t object to that, but that’s not the plan. The plan is to bleed the nhs dry, run down staff, then say it’s failing.
Then sell it off to multinational/aka US companies who will take the profit not reinvest it.
Why would anyone think the US whose own health system is totally inadequate for so many, where only the wealthy get treatment, will do anything different here once they get their greedy hands on it. It’s terrifying, yes for for us older people but more importantly for your children and mine.

Grany you’re behind the curve. Private firms do already provide NHS services. Diabetic eye screening is provided in my area by Virgin Care. Most dentists are private firms providing NHS services, as are most opticians. Dig into your local big hospital and you’ll find all sort of things contracted out. I’m not saying that’s right or wrong but that’s how it is throughout publicly funded services of all kinds, whether that be the NHS or your bin collections.

Propoganda made to stir things up. Be especially wary of commercial channels with audience figures to maintain.
If you really want to understand what’s wrong with the NHS speak to someone working in a frontline ambulance role. 80% of responses are for situations that don’t need anything more than routine care, let alone constituting an emergency. However, it’s very difficult for the crew to not take someone in if they’re demanding care. This causes a ripple effect right throughout the system and is an extreme waste of the taxpayers pound. Media also focusses on the more emotive relevant subjects, such as cancer care, but never on the not cost efficient treatment given just because they can. Remember that to get more we’ll have to pay more, that’s where we’ve gotten to.

Our political class just loves Macron and will not admit that he is not popular in his own country. We might get ideas above our station.

Bingo I can’t do links. Just google The dirty war in the NHS. A documentary by John Pilger. It was on just before Christmas don’t know which channel, maybe 4.

French people out on streets protesting

twitter.com/thepileus/status/1210172634522177536?s=20

Nicola #NotMyPM #SaveOurNHS?
@nikpet1
And the ill-informed believed the NHS was safe in Tories hands and voted for them!

EXCLUSIVE: The Conservatives are inviting private firms to bid for NHS cardiology, gynaecology, paediatrics and oncology services in big sell out
#Corbynwasright #Corbynisright

Private firms invited to run NHS services

twitter.com/nikpet1/status/1211243128763637761?s=20

Why do you think Britain don't do similar?

@thepileus
LOOK AT THIS FROM FRANCE!

Over a million people on strike against the Govt wanting to cut pensions

BBC ignoring in fear that if Brits knew such an uprising was possible, people here might do something similar

I am also fed with people blaming something that happened 13 years ago. There has been time to right it not make it worse.

Under a Tory government the NHS always suffers and despite what Boris has said he out to make it private. Well done Tory voters.

So...I do not see any link - how do we see this program? What channel is it on? What is it called - is it ''The dirty war on the NHS''? What date was it shown?

Listening to the news this morning.... heard children’s health and cancer services are up for tender... so anyone who thinks the nhs is safe in this government’s hands might want to take a look. It’s all going on under our noses, whatever BJ says to the contrary.

I thought i knew (via a relative in the nhs)how much of it has already been sold off to profit making multinationals ( profits for them, not the nhs) i was genuinely shocked. It was an eye opener, and not in a good way. Everyone should watch it.

I 'm trying to summon up the courage to watch it. Am sick and tired of people harping on about who did what, when. All that matters is what's happening now. There has to be a time when people stop blaming Blair for everything....

Since the days of Thatcher, Labour, Conservative and Lib Dems, in the coalition, have all carried forward privatisation of the NHS. Watch the programme, if only to see how the Americans who live in the Appalachians access eyecare and dental work.
Thank you John Pilcher, we have now been told.