Gareth Malone in prison

As a member of a choir myself I know how singing with others can really improve your mental state. I felt Gareth Malone had expected too much of these young men though and the number of other people he had to bring in to sing proved that. Some of these boys even had to be kept in different wings to avoid more violence. However I was amazed at how articulate some of them were when writing their songs/raps. They all seemed so self aware. Though they still lacked control of their emotions they seemed to feel they deserved their punishment. Yes I feel sorry for their victims but I also felt sympathy for these young men who suffered from a variety of mental conditions which the prison environment wasn't helping.

I was in tears at the moving final performance but feel concerned about what happens now. I doubt that the inspirational prison governor will get the money for the resident musician that she wanted.

Does Gareth Malone give his time to help the victims of crimes, I wonder. Personally, I don't give a dog's b.....ks about the perpetrators. You either chose to be a criminal or you do not.

Perhaps you ought to see the programme anniebach before making such negative comments. I don't see the connection between young men who it appeared had experienced many difficulties in their lives and Jimmy Savile - a rich and manipulative person who deliberately cultivated a saint-like persona in order to abuse children and young people when they were at their most vulnerable.

I found the programme extremely moving -uplifting in many ways, but also with an underlying sadness. I hope that some of the young men who were featured do manage to make something of their lives. I fear, though, that most of them will return to crime because, as one of them said, they will be returning to the same physical and social environment and, even if they want to "go straight" it will be very difficult to get a job with a serious record of violence and hardly any work experience.

I've no doubt Gareth Malone's concern and enthusiasm for these projects is sincere but, as with the Grenfell choir programme, I do wonder whether, having taken part in this wonderful project, after the "high" come may come the "low"- which in the case of many of the young men involved may well exacerbate their mental health issues.

I have just listened to the rest of this program when I got home.
I was very impressed at what changes you could see in the mood of those lads who took part in this.
I do hope someone could help to try and get these lads motivated because when someone did get them interested and looked so pleased with what they did. However the usual excuses will be we don't have enough money.
I did not expect that the inmates would get that interested.

Having a relative incarcerated has been a shocking eye-opener for me. You simply would not believe what is going on unchecked. Look up a few CQC reports on prisons and clock the rates of self-harm, suicide and violence - it is terrifying.

One of the problems (as was seen on the programme) is that the gangs and the heavy mob are there in the prison, so it is very hard for those who want to turn their lives round to escape the culture into which they have been sucked by the need to get money - one young man talked about how he got sucked into drug dealing because his mother was sick and had no benefits.

I know that the reach of the drug dealers extends into the prisons where they deal openly in drugs (yes - really) and intimidate and beat up those whom they draw into addiction - they have mobile phones and organise deals and threats to families outside as well.....put £x of money into this numbered account or we will beat your OH up in the prison.

It is the law of the jungle in these places and in some cases the staff are turning a blind eye - for a bung maybe?

I felt a huge sadness whilst watching the programme because I can’t see how most of these young people can be helped.

For those amongst us that had a ‘normal’ upbringing. Whatever that means.
We lived with people who loved us and gave us value, were able to help us to fit in with society.

Weren’t we lucky.
The young men that were featured on this programme lacked two of those basics.

So sad to see these youngsters in prison and most on a downward spiral to continued crime unless some sort of rehabilitation programme is put in place. Home lives of these individuals are abysmal with little or no chance of ever experiencing anything like a home life as we know it.

Where is the help/support for when these men are released ? The sad thing is that I can't see any improvement happening in the prison system or the judicial system as a whole.

It was obvious that a couple of these young men hadn't wanted to do what they did and were remorseful for their crimes.
It's this type who should be encouraged to remain on the right side of the law and whatever their interests in life they should be followed up and helped with to turn their lives around. An apprenticeship ? Even the music industry.

I've followed a poor soul who's been locked up for 34 years for a murder he didn't commit.
While his legal representatives are working in the background as I speak, a " drama " about this case has it's first airing tomorrow in episode 1 of 6.

The man has been fighting for his freedom from day one and has never faltered in his quest to tell the world he's innocent.
His latest supporter is a retired police officer who worked at the Met and also for Essex police. There are many such supporters as well as actors and those in legal professions.

Unfortunately I know this series won't show the man that he is as no-one has either spoken to him nor met him face to face so there'll have to be a certain amount of sensationalism because he's been branded a murderer.
I shall be watching closely for mistakes and unnecessary embellishment that's usually added to these drama's.

Resurgam . It’s Aylesbury Prison for young offenders. One of the toughest.

I've watched all Gareth Malone's programmes and enjoyed them, but I felt he was too out of his depth with this challenge. Whether his efforts will make any difference to these young men remains to be seen in the next episodes, but they have so much pent-up energy which needs to be channeled physically that I doubt singing will resolve anything.

Watching that program those young people just look really look very angry young men. Does anyone know what catagory prison they are in?

I think they said this prison had been in special measures for improvement.
Yes as Luckgirl said they looked really damaged. So much aggression and despair. Poor young men.

I watched this and it was very thought provoking. We put people in boxes and label them but we are all individuals with problems and needs. Some of these lads when on their own were unassuming individuals but in todays society bravado seems to be the way to go to fit in with your peers.
I hope some of these prisoners get something real out of this experience. Will definitely be watching again tonight.

I found this programme heart breaking to watch.
As others have said, whilst recognising that these young men have committed crimes and not seeking to undermine the impact of that - it was painful to watch them. Their lack of self esteem and confidence and the self sabotaging behaviour was awful.

I agree with you Luckygirl they are of course perpetrators but are also victims.

Years ago when I did my social work qualification, we worked alongside trainee probation officers. Consequently I have friends of long standing who work in the probation service. As that service has been the subject of cuts after cuts, I wonder what remains to support / rehabilitate prisoners on their release back into society.

It’s so worrying. I do hope the next episode of the programme is more uplifting.

Thanks Luckygirl. You speak from personal and professional experience. You’re correct especially about the need for early years support. Blair should be credited for the investment in research based Services, Sure Start family centres being key.

The fact that these young men come from backgrounds where there is poverty, marital conflict and breakdown was very clear. And the presence of mental illness was also apparent.

What are needed are preventive measures and family support; and robust and proactive mental health services. We now have none of these things and we are paying the price in broken lives and in society as whole.

These are damaged people.

There used to be good family centres and Sure Start where struggling families could turn for advice and support - they went.

Our dear relative was adopted into our family having been born to two drug addicts and being addicted at birth. Add in abuse (suffocation) and neglect; then no services to support our attempts to redress these deficits and you have a recipe for disaster. This relative needed proper medical and mental health services, and a well-supported education environment - none were forthcoming in spite of the whole family fighting for these. So.....now in jail, after committing a serious crime - which we could all see coming and could get no-one to listen. The buck was passed endlessly by people sitting behind desks rather than out there getting to know this damaged person; CAMHS were virtually staffless and waiting times measured in years.

We all pay the price for this gaping hole in our services.

annie - I cannot answer your questions because I do not have the information you have asked for. I am not entirely sure what you are wanting to say.

In a study by the Royal College of Speech and Language Therapy, a large proportion of offenders were found to have poor language skills. (I mean native English speakers by the way). Also many were of low cognitive ability. Just the people least able to find a stable way through life.
I was interested to hear of a project in a YOI which banned all sugar laden and food of low nutritional value. It introduced healthy diets and there was a marked reduction in challenging behaviour from the lads.
Much to think about.

I haven’t seen the programme.

If those in prison need understanding do not all who commit
crimes need understanding?

Was Jimmy Saville abused , was he mentally ill.

Prince Andrew certainly is condemned on this forum because
he is wealthy and privileged.

A man has just been sentenced for multiple rapes on men,
is he mentally ill, was he abused.

Good to read this thread, especially the comments from MawB and Bradfordlass. I haven't seen the programme but will watch.
Strangeways a/k as HMP Manchester is a grim place as mumofmadboys says. So are all prisons. Those who dismiss prisoners and somehow less than human, who 'deserve' to live on bread and water etc who believe Prisons are holiday camps, no nothing and feel less.

I think the school system with it's stress on academic success doesn't help. The result is a lot of young men with low self esteem and that added to broken families, poor parenting, drug and alcohol problems, mental health problems and lack of jobs results in young men making bad decisions and ending up in jail. I have worked in Strangeways and it is heartbreaking.

Absolutely Bradfordlass - the physical and emotional abuse these young people have suffered is a major factor in their complex mental health issues. The identification with “gangs” (read “families”) lack of self worth, reliance on the quick fixes - and don’t get me started on education...
But having good intentions however humane, is not enough as Gareth Malone is finding.

I was a prison visitor for many years and you are right Luckygirl there are common themes, to which I will add 'sexual and physical abuse by family members'. Often from an appallingly young age.

The trouble is, any prison reforms, and there have been very many since John Howard in the 18th century, are shouted down by the idiots who think they deserve all they get - without ever considering why these people committed the crimes.

So it snails along quietly in the background, with little or no support from most MPs who know it will not go down well with die-hard constituents.

There was a strong move towards reform here some years ago, by Maori academics and elders who were making wonderful headway with the very different 'Maori justice system' - proving that a cultural approach could really turn lives round. It helped Pakeha (non-Maori), too.

What happened? Outcry from the moronic and well-heeled right wing resulting in loss of funding and collapse of a truly innovative and successful system...and the lives it was helping.

Yes I did and could see what an uphill struggle he was having.
These poor lads are like a different nationality in their language, life experience, family background (or lack of it) to (as GM described himself) “a middle aged, middle class white guy”
I sincerely believe drugs are at the bottom of it,, the need for money,the resultant crime, but also the mental health issues many of the lads suffered from. Many of them may have been born to mums with a drink or drug habit and the effects on the foetus/baby can be devastating.
My great uncle used to run boys’ clubs in the 40’s and 50’s in the Kings Cross area of London which was always a tough area and he found that boxing instilled a basic discipline and respect for physical fitness and kept many of them out of gangs and out of trouble. They “belonged” somewhere, whereas one of the young men tonight said that nobod on the outside cared about them, they could die tomorrow and nobody would even know.

Oh, ok. I get it now. I have vaguely heard of GM but not seen the prog. Pleased to hear he is not actually in the nick!

Yes, I watched this. I found it immensely moving. Such young men, locked in both physically and mentally. Tragic. And yet,
and yet, for just a few, through their poetry and music, they found small a window of freedom.

Gareth Malone is choir leader and musician who has been the subject of several TV series in which he goes into an organisation (school, army camp etc.) and tries to help the people there through music and creating a choir.

He is not in prison as a convicted criminal!