Channel 5, Gypsies on Benefits and Proud

Saw it was on and avoided it!
I want a happy distraction at the moment, and that wasn’t it.?

Not something I wish to watch. Especially at the moment.

Can you imagine the outcry of a programme entitled 'claiming benefits and black and proud' or 'gay and proud to claim benefits '?
It's racist, it's nasty, devisive and no, I didn't watch it

Well, I've come to a decision

Well, Dollymc1 I am watching it, started with a very open mind, I'm quite an easy going, liberal (with a small l) person, but am now pretty damn crosd!

Not so many years ago we were at risk of losing our house, were trying to live on JSA (no help if you have a mortgage) and had both "paid in" all our working lives, then to see people organising a coach to come to the UK with the express reason of getting housed, and claim benefits!

BTW Dolly this programme isn't about travellers, it's about people from Romania (roma/gypsies) deliberately leaving their own country to come to the UK with the express intention of getting housed and claiming benefits.

Words fail me after watching that.

Nothing to do with benefits but last week we called the police and alerted the farmer who owns the land next to us because we could see the lights of several vehicles driving around the newly drilled field outside our window.

They had done no end of damage, we think there were about five vehicles and it's always a worry because we live in such an isolated place.

The police told us it was a group of travellers from a site about eight miles away. Thanks to Lockdown they can help themselves to remote farmland to have some fun because everywhere is so quiet.

The farming community is always at the mercy of their selfish and law breaking behaviour so don't anybody ever expect us to see it any other way.

I'm sorry for your troubles phoenix, but that isn't the fault of the Roma

It's a prejudice and it needs to be addressed

Dolly I don't think for a moment that it was, but a funny old system that people who have paid in for years and get very little help, then there are those who have made no contribution to the economy, then actually organise a coach trip to come to the UK with the express intention of getting housed, benefits etc seemed to get it with no problem!

I always find this sort of programme very disturbing - so I did not watch it.

In the latter part of my career I had a great deal of contact with Travellers of all kinds. I found that they reflected the rest of society: there were people I was happy to call friends, people who were dishonest, people who were diligent and hard-working, people who were lazy, people who cheated the benefit systems, and people who worked tirelessly for charity for nothing.

In fact, they were very much like all the rest of us.

Programmes that single out any one group are mainly simply attention-seeking. But I also remind myself that sometimes a single distinct group can be the focus of misbehaviour and we should not avoid telling it like it is - e.g. the sex abuse scandals in the north of England.

No, Dolly, I dont think in this instance it is a "prejudice" it's an injustice!

Sorry, phoenix. I posted before I realised the programme was about Roma gypsies.

Come off it Dolly ( the high horse) travellers are a huge problem for so many villages up and down the land, ask any policeman.
In this case the subject was about Romanian people being able to breeze into the UK, claim benefits and housing etc and anything going ....thanks to us being in the EU.
We are out of it now, so those practices have ended.

Luckygirl this programme was not about travellers per se, but people deliberately leaving Romania to come to the UK looking for (and getting) a house and benefits, a different issue altogether.

That does seem unacceptable. I guess that is due to change.

Luckygirl, I know from previous threads about your working relationship with travellers but can I ask you, have you ever personally been on the receiving end of their anti-social behaviour?

Have you ever had your garden furniture and other items stolen in broad daylight while you were on the phone to the police trying to get help?

Have you ever witnessed wilful damage and threatening and intimidating behaviour at close quarters knowing you can do nothing about it?

Have you ever owned a business where they could arrive at any time exhibiting the behaviour described in the above paragraph?

Have you known anyone who has had their business/home burned to the ground because they refused to serve them any more drinks on NYE (it happened to friends)

Do you know any police who would do anything, absolutely anything to avoid having to question them in their own environment?

Please don't tell me they're just like the rest of us.

The problem of course is that we only hear about the bad things because they make the news - a bit like terrorists and Muslims being connected because that is the only time they get into the news. The vast swathe of law-abiding citizens in these communities are never heard about.

I guess I am saying that they are like the rest of us in the sense that there are good and bad - but it is the bad things that make the news.

I absolutely do not condone or excuse any of the behaviours that you have listed - very clearly wholly unacceptable. But what people do not see are the stories about Travellers working their tripe out for their local communities, running charities, raising honest children in close-knit families - in the same way that those stories about Muslims are thin on the ground in the news.

I have indeed been on the receiving end of anti-social behaviour from Travellers - in a big way (far bigger than anything described above!) that I cannot describe here for confidentiality reasons! But, in my career as a SW I was on the receiving end of such behaviour from people from many different communities.

I absolutely believe that where unacceptable behaviour occurs, the perpetrators should be outed, charged, convicted and condemned by us all. But I would like to see the good stories running alongside - the "tarred with the same brush" scenario is a problem for all minorities.

One thing that does not make the news is the very strong tradition of Christianity - particularly of the born-again variety - in Traveller communities. They take this very seriously and the concept of doing good is central to this.

I know Travellers who work in the media, have Oxford degrees, are teachers, doctors and nurses etc. We just do not recognise their heritage as they do not make a song and dance about it. Sometimes I wish they did as it would redress the balance.

No-one from any community should be allowed to get away with the sort of behaviour you describe. And I am no apologist for this.

Wouldn’t these teachers, doctors, nurses by speaking out help
the travelling communities

They would - but having achieved these positions maybe they might not want to jeopardise their positions/promotions and endure the sort of flak that they might get - I can understand them not wanting to invite that. They have to live in the world as it is with all its imperfections. I do not blame them for not announcing it.

I wish people would stop conflating Roma Gypsies with people from the Traveller community. They're not the same and they have no connection to each other.

The accepted term for all Travellers now is Traveller - that encompasses many different traditions: Roma, Irish Travellers, Welsh Travellers, English Travellers and what came to be known as New Age Travellers etc. Although they have very different ways of life and mores, they are mostly happy to be under the umbrella term of Traveller. I used to picture edit and co-ordinate their national magazine called Travellers' Times and all these traditions were happy to be included.

I didn't watch the programme as I know exactly what they do, and where they get a lot of their money.

Here is a picture of a Roma house ( one of many in this style in Romania) This house is near friends of mine in Romania.
They don't live there all the year round ?