Honour on ITV

Trisher I have commented on the honour part earlier on in the thread and totally do not agree with how the woman are treated.

I just am saying that F.G.M. is illegal in the U.K and massive behind the scene work goes on to make sure as much as possible happens so that young girls are spared this barbaric
invasive cultural operation.
Many of the families that want to have this for their daughters usually use a special well known person to there culture to carry out the circumcision process which is what it fundamentally is also girls have died in the process as that is how traumatic it can be.
It is the generation that came with older family who are against this and most of them do not want and prevent the FGM being carried out I hope the U.K keeps up its vigilance against this terrible assault to the young girls.

Why do the mothers support their male relatives?
It isn't only that they support, some women actively encourage men to take action. It is to do with concern for their daughters to have a place in their community, to marry well and to be succesful within the narrow perimeters they have always accepted. A friend once discussed FGM with a highly educated man, he agreed it was horrific but said his daughters would still be done because their mother would demand it so they would make good marriages.

The power of the community can't be under estimated in many communities. That's particularly the case with many Muslim communities where so called 'honour' murders or acid attacks are sadly not uncommon.
As for why the mothers support the male relatives, the fear of being excluded from family and community results is a powerful control mechanism. Also information is passed widely within the community. The witness protection scheme can help a mother and children move 200 miles away but they will soon be identified in their new area, and information passed back to the perpetrators.

Why do the mothers support their male relatives?
Indoctrination I suppose, along with fear of being cast out or physically punished, and isolated.
It really does make one realise how lucky we are here.
As for your comments about the men who do these things, they've been behaving this way for so long they have no conscience, no will to change.

I agree with every post suzie has made and also with pretty much all the posts on here. We watched both programmes back to back as we were on holiday when the first one was shown. I know this goes on, but seeing one girl’s story really brings it home. I know that a these ‘honour’ killings go on all the time, but it particularly grieves me that they happen in the UK where such actions are despised. Why do these men think they can come to live in Britain, one of the most welcoming states in the world, and then think it’s okay to import their vile culture? Why do the mothers support their male relatives? Don’t they love their children? Is family ‘honour’ more important than a mother’s love?

The RL officer did a wonderful job...I doubt she'd be moping about miserably the way Keeley Hawes did though.

I agree with Jane10 on this.
It's not a criticism of women in general, just that KH isnt as convincing an actress when directed to portray a character in this manner.
Let's be realistic here, the program had to get so many different perspectives across, including the inhumanity of the situation.
The director had to find a way of signalling the support of this particular officer, against the backdrop of the disinterest of the other officers Banaz had met.
Hence the scenes where the character is overcome.
Wonderful actress though KH is normally, she just wasnt that convincing at this.

And Ken Loach - well known for his collaborative approach

Actually directors do vary but a good director sticks to the script -doesn't invent scenes and allows the actor to bring their own ideas to a role. Apart from Mike Leigh of course who works in a way no one else will ever be allowed to.

Jane10

Suziewoozie sigh.

Ditto

Suziewoozie sigh.

There's an interview with the sister in the DM on line this morning.

It depends very much on the director - some work much more collaboratively with their script writers, actors etc. Tgere isn’t one way to direct at all

It's down to the director how an actor portrays what's in the script.

So Jane10 how do you think an actress should depict a woman police officer who is distressed? Actors can only do what the script requires them to. The script would have been looked at by the real police officer.

Sigh. I'm not talking about the real policewoman. It's the actress I'm complaining about.

It was a dramatisation Jane and not played out in real time. I don’t know why you are feeling it necessary to keep criticising her for the fact that she probably cried sometimes but given the years she spent on the case in total I doubt it affected her judgement, made people think less of her or shows her in a negative light.

Jane10 - I agree that in RL weeping as often as the KH character did would have not enhanced career prospects and could well have resulted a referral to the Force counselling service.
Still, no bad thing to show that horrific cases do impact on the Police officers and other professionals involved. Often the impact is buried deep though.

The real life officer did a wonderful job. I doubt she'd be moping about miserably the way Keeley Hawes did though. I'm sure she had despairing moments. She wouldn't have any control over how the director said Keeley had to perform.
The interpreter was well portrayed - sitting looking devastated after translating the phone call transcripts.
Yes I've certainly had some shocking moments in my career when I've had to just go and sit in my car to recover for a bit then collect myself and just 'keep buggering on' as Churchill used to say.

I watched this on catch up this week and though it excellent. It was a brave and accurate portrayal of the way in 'Honour' allows men in some communities to control or murder women who don't conform. I was pleased to see the Kurdish community worker deny being a "community leader" on the basis her status as a woman would never allow that.

As the real life officer, Caroline ? was involved in the production, its likely she'd have agreed to her character showing emotion. Ask any officer, or social worker, who has worked many similar situations and its likely one will stand out as the one where they wept. They may have wept in the car, or when home alone rather than in the presence of colleagues but there will also be occasions when those who can usually face terrible situations, find themselves overwhelmed. The Keeley Hawes character was dogged and determined. It was a complex investigation, she' have had to argue to keep it going, to have huge resources at a time when budgets were controlled by senior officers and the government was setting targets which were often focussed on burglary and car crime.

Wow what an excellent idea re the teaspoons. Simple and easy to do. I agree about informing the young girls about this but not the older generation.

Institutions are were afraid. Individuals who go against the 'ethos' have a lot to loose.
If it wasnt for the social worker involved in the girls from Rochdale nothing would have been done.

It's about time that such brutality and violence was taken seriously.

Similarly, when girls in Rochdale and other areas were not taken seriously, regarding grooming and repeated violence against them, the crimes went on much longer than they should.

I hadn't heard of this, so Thank you welbeck for the link

karmanirvana.org.uk/when-is-a-spoon-not-just-a-spoon/

a slightly different issue but have you heard of the teaspoon campaign, to try to protect young girls who are being taken abroad by family for forced marriage.
i think it should be widely publicised in schools, but maybe not to the parents' generation.