'Viewpoint' on ITV and Noel Clarke

Iam64

I’ve read some of the mumsnet thread on this. It’s cheered me to see that younger women seem more well informed about the severity of the allegations. There are comments from women who worked with him and confirm he’s a bullying sexual harasser

In addition to the minimising / disbelief that is always a part of any GN thread on any form of violence against women ( but especially sexual) I’ve been profoundly depressed by the inability of some posters to show any understanding at all as to issues around risk management/ duty of care/ safeguarding once allegations have been made. But the two aspects tend to go together.

I’ve read some of the mumsnet thread on this. It’s cheered me to see that younger women seem more well informed about the severity of the allegations. There are comments from women who worked with him and confirm he’s a bullying sexual harasser

Eloethan, I was surprised when itv announced the final episode would only be shown on its hub. On reflection, I think that was the right decision. It seems that NC’s behaviour has been an open secret in ‘the industry’ for over 17 years. I suspect itv legal and other senior employees were well aware of the allegations which increase daily.
It’s a statement that sexual harassment, bullying, the demeaning, humiliating treatment of women in their employment will not be ignored.

If the series was still in production then I think it would be the right thing to do to stop it.

However, this series has already been filmed and four episodes broadcast. It makes no difference whatsoever if the final episode is shown.

suziewoozie

Lifted from Twitter

If 20 men told me my kitchen was on fire I'd grab a fire extinguisher and run to see what I could do.
If 20 women told me my kitchen was on fire I'd await the outcome of an as yet undescribed due process before taking a view on what further action might be necessary.

I am so going to steal this

I couldn’t watch the tv hub however, I have found a very short summary of episode 5 on the radiotimes.com website.

3nanny6

The argument still rages about Noel Clarke and the fact that these women should be believed. The fact that even Bafta have said they did not have enough information from these women to cancel the presentation of the Bafta on the night proves that not enough information has been correctly gathered to announce a guilty verdict on N.C. In that case why should some of us GNs be told we should find him guilty.
Also who are the people on GN who are saying he calls his wife vagina or vag at home has he made a public statement anywhere to say that because I have not seen it.

In regard of the sex scenes that film makers put in their budget dramas it is what people have become accustomed to watch and most of them are not too raunchy.
In my opinion I watched the programme Naked Attraction only to see what it was about and I found it to be disgusting
how individuals went on there to try and get a date with someone. Is it the day and age when full nudity is acceptable
and to fawn and slobber over the human body and also speculate what they might like to do to certain parts of the body once they know the person I found ghastly and nasty.
With such outrageous programmes like that is it any wonder many people seem to have that sort of behaviour on the brain.

Me thinks thou doth protest too much ?

Lifted from Twitter

If 20 men told me my kitchen was on fire I'd grab a fire extinguisher and run to see what I could do.
If 20 women told me my kitchen was on fire I'd await the outcome of an as yet undescribed due process before taking a view on what further action might be necessary.

3nanny6

The argument still rages about Noel Clarke and the fact that these women should be believed. The fact that even Bafta have said they did not have enough information from these women to cancel the presentation of the Bafta on the night proves that not enough information has been correctly gathered to announce a guilty verdict on N.C. In that case why should some of us GNs be told we should find him guilty.
Also who are the people on GN who are saying he calls his wife vagina or vag at home has he made a public statement anywhere to say that because I have not seen it.

In regard of the sex scenes that film makers put in their budget dramas it is what people have become accustomed to watch and most of them are not too raunchy.
In my opinion I watched the programme Naked Attraction only to see what it was about and I found it to be disgusting
how individuals went on there to try and get a date with someone. Is it the day and age when full nudity is acceptable
and to fawn and slobber over the human body and also speculate what they might like to do to certain parts of the body once they know the person I found ghastly and nasty.
With such outrageous programmes like that is it any wonder many people seem to have that sort of behaviour on the brain.

BAFTA wanted more information than could be provided in time. Since the award ceremony more information has been provided. And it’s not about a guilty verdict ffs it’s about enough credible information to cause concern - that’s how come people get suspended from their jobs before a full investigation is carried out but enough concern to take action to manage risk to others. And disgusting voyeuristic ‘entertainment’ like Naked Attractions ( and much other reality TV) has nothing to do with the the issues underpinning the NC case and the relationship between powerful men and actresses that are being discussed here.

I hardly watch television so I’ve never seen this actor. I know nothing about him. Not even the BAFTAS. I’ve only read snippets about all this in the newspapers that last day or two.

Why apologise so profusely if you have not done anything wrong ?

He’s now toast I would think.

The argument still rages about Noel Clarke and the fact that these women should be believed. The fact that even Bafta have said they did not have enough information from these women to cancel the presentation of the Bafta on the night proves that not enough information has been correctly gathered to announce a guilty verdict on N.C. In that case why should some of us GNs be told we should find him guilty.
Also who are the people on GN who are saying he calls his wife vagina or vag at home has he made a public statement anywhere to say that because I have not seen it.

In regard of the sex scenes that film makers put in their budget dramas it is what people have become accustomed to watch and most of them are not too raunchy.
In my opinion I watched the programme Naked Attraction only to see what it was about and I found it to be disgusting
how individuals went on there to try and get a date with someone. Is it the day and age when full nudity is acceptable
and to fawn and slobber over the human body and also speculate what they might like to do to certain parts of the body once they know the person I found ghastly and nasty.
With such outrageous programmes like that is it any wonder many people seem to have that sort of behaviour on the brain.

I predicted whodunnit in the first episode. He could've worked it out in one episode by just looking around rather than through the telescope.

I only speak for myself, trisher, rather than make assumptions that are not backed up with figures. Of course I can't explain why sex scenes are there! I can give an opinion, but it would be just that, the same as yours is.

FWIW, I would guess that film makers try to appeal to as many people as possible, so in most big-budget drama there is some sex, some action scenes, some romance and so on. That is not the same as people 'demanding' sex scenes. People went to the cinema in the days when actors had to have a foot on the floor when a couple were in bed.

I agree that the protection of young women is important, which is why it is 100% the right thing to hold the perpetrators of assault, abuse or other bad behaviour to account and use the full weight of the law when necessary. I don't think it is fair to those young women to shift the blame from the perpetrators to 'the public' for not switching off when a naked body appears on their screen in case it gives implicit approval to its inclusion.

Also, your dismissal of Gransnetters is rather dismissive. We are a multi-faceted group, and I'm sure that individually and collectively we do make up a significant part of various audiences, and as such will be of interest to programme and film makers.

welbeck

i don't understand how people can be so outraged at being denied seeing a tv show, even the finale, but are unmoved about repeated disrespect, humiliation, bullying acts to women in junior roles, over many years.

Well said. People should show some respect to the women stating they’ve been abused and stop moaning about a TV show. Maybe actually read The Guardian article and then comment.

i don't understand how people can be so outraged at being denied seeing a tv show, even the finale, but are unmoved about repeated disrespect, humiliation, bullying acts to women in junior roles, over many years.

Can’t believe the disgusting views on here. 20 women have come forward. These women should be believed. Wake up people!

So explain why the sex scenes are there Doodledog if not because the public demands them. It's a bit egotistical to think that your personal preferences are entirely responsible for the output of the film and TV industry. I doubt if GNers figure very highly in the consideration of what is shown.
Of course the men are responsible for their actions, but surely the protection and care of young women is the responsibility of us all. And the expectation that such scenes are a necessary part of an acting career is unacceptable.

Joseph, Mary and the wee Donkey, glammanana, I sincerely hope not!

trisher, Yes, sex sells. On the other hand, people can only watch what is available, unless they buy 'under the counter' things (or the digital equivalent). I am not going to turn off something I am watching because there is sex or nudity in it - it doesn't bother me either way. But that is not the same as 'demanding' that dramas have either, which is my point. I would just as happily watch a film where the camera pans out before the sex, and I don't think I am unusual in that.

In answer to your second point, I know you don't like men to take responsibility for things, but come on. I don't think that (whether Clarke is innocent or guilty) that there won't be plenty of other exploitative men in the TV/film industry, but I absolutely do think that the responsibility for that lies solely with them, whether or not they were 'enabled' to do so. They don't have to be at the mercy of their impulses, even if the patriarchal system of their industry throws vulnerable young women their way.

I watched the final episode on ITVHub this afternoon I hope you ladies who want to watch it manage to do so.
There had better not be any upsets in screening the last episode of Line of Duty tomorrow evening or I will be very upset .

Doodledog the industry is driven by public demand. If no one watches something it doesn't make money, if it doesn't make money the people involved and the formula will not be used or funded again. So sex sells. How can it work in any other way? If you watch it you are consciously or unconsciously indicaing your approval. Just as the punter using a prostitute should accept some responsibility so the audience watching these scenes must do likewise.
Yes Noel Clarke may have behaved badly (and I believe in due process not media-trial) but the circumstances which enabled him to do so were not of his creation .
And I doubt he is the only person behaving like this.

The posts on here that refer to the 20 (so far) complainants that “crawled out the woodwork “ are frankly to me, disgusting.

Agreed. I meant to mention that in my post but got distracted by the idea that the exploitation of young actresses is 'nobody's fault' except for a voracious public.

Equating women who have been sexually assaulted with verminous insects is appalling, but all too familiar on here. To some, it is always men who are the victims. It's depressing.

But what I really find objectionable is the ethos of an industry which makes young actresses subject themselves to pseudo pornographic scenes, apparently because they fear for their careers. And that isn't the fault of Noel Clarke or anyone in the industry, it's the fault of a public who demand more and more extreme nudity and sex scenes.

Seriously? How is it not the fault of anyone in the industry if young actresses have to 'subject themselves to pseudo-pornographic scenes'? Of course it is.

I will watch a film or TV drama that has nudity or sex in it, but I am not 'demanding' anything of the sort, and I don't know anyone who does.

I think that blaming 'the public' just exonerates exploitative men who know how powerful they are in an industry which is one of the most gender-unequal of all.

I don't know whether ITV should have pulled the last episode of the drama. I wonder whether the 5 nights a week schedule might have been because they knew the news would break and they hoped to get it screened in time. Apparently they had been told a few weeks ago, but didn't have enough to go on until more women came forward. It was making a stand, I suppose, but it looks a bit forced in the circumstances, and it was very frustrating for viewers who had persevered with the series for the first four episodes.

I haven’t read the Guardian article but will do so. I have worked with sex offenders and victims of all ages.
Prosecuting men who sexually abuse adults and/or children is a complex issue. The fact a case doesn’t go to trail does not “prove they were innocent’. If only it was that simple.

The posts on here that refer to the 20 (so far) complainants that “crawled out the woodwork “ are frankly to me, disgusting.
This man has conceded his behaviour may have upset some women. He apologises, he will seek therapy.

It isn’t trial by media. It’s an attempt to stop,other women being subjected to bullying, sexual assault and demeaning exploitative behaviour. What about that is difficult to understand

I wonder it was widely publicised that boys who heard other boys using sexual insults or comments about girls should be able to speak up and condemn their attitude. Shouldn't some of the people working with Noel Clarke have said something and told him to stop?

Yvonne25

Seems now days you are guilty till proven innocent..

No it doesn’t