'Viewpoint' on ITV and Noel Clarke

I do not go on any social media sites and only use Gransnet which can at times be interesting. That will be the reason
that I have not seen any posts about Noel Clarke and women challenging his behaviour for some time. The reason being just that and I was surprised to suddenly hear all this information about him coming out. When I first put my computer on I have a homepage which brings up different stories of what is in the news at this present time and that is when I first knew of all this .

It now seems to be a tell all about what has gone on, personally I think it is what it is and only those fully involved in it know what the real situation is.
One thing for sure his career in acting and in the industry is over only he will have to live with that.

3nanny6, I have looked back through the thread and can't find any posts where I have said that you suggested that people not coming forward should put up or shut up.

I don't think I responded to a post of yours in particular before you mentioned me as having 'an attitude', at which point I just reiterated my point of view. I have given reasons why women may not have come forward at the time, but you are, of course, perfectly entitled to disagree.

I think, however, that you are reading things that aren't there when it comes to people picking up on your comments.

I mean the way he talked about women rather than any accusations.

Well yes in the way that Harvey Weinstein was a successful producer, saville gave a lot to charity until.... As I have said women have been challenging his behaviour on social media for some time so some people might have thought 'all good' but those women certainly didnt think that.

Trisher : yes you are right in some of the productions Noel Clarke was the management so nothing could have been done about that.
I know it is difficult but I still think the young women should have reported the grievances to the police when these things happened for the reasons I have already said.
One thing that annoyed me though is someone posting in comments that if someone doesn't come forward immediately then they are either a liar or they should either put up or shut up and I never made those comments and will not have anyone say I did.
I only commented that I have watched much of his work perhaps more in his early days when he started out with the Triology of Kidulthood, Adulthood and Brotherhood and many would not find that triology to their taste.
In the industry these actors work in it is probable that sex and sexuality could be taken further than is acceptable.
I look at things from my viewing of what I want to watch on T.V and what I do not want to watch and last week as I saw Viewpoint would be showing I spent 4 evenings of my time watching it until the plug was pulled on the final episode.

To me it seems that Noel Clarke got the Bafta all good and then suddenly it's all over he is now a sexual predator.
Much of hardcore media are turning this into a witch-hunt and that is the wrong way to get to the bottom of things in my opinion.

3Nanny6 One of the problems with people reporting to management as you suggested is that Noel Clarke was the management. In many of his productions he is writer, director and producer which means he holds all the strings. As for his outstanding acheivements Harvey Weinstein made many more (and better) contributions to the media and he was convicted of abuse and rape of women.
I do think that Noel Clarke probably came into the business as a young man and grew to regard unacceptable behaviour as the norm (which doesn't excuse his behaviour but explains some of it).
I also think in this case that some of the women's statements are open to question, particularly the woman who worked in management with him and didn't quetion his attitudes until she left and he refused to pay her £3000. And the young woman who performed gymnastics in a short skirt in front of a group of people and then complained, because he was showing a photograph he took of her, showing her underwear, to others.
It's an industry where women can use their sexuality to get ahead, but it sometimes doesn't work, and men exploit women and abuse them because they hold most of the power. It's the modern day equivalent of the casting couch. It shouldn't still exist but it does.

And listening to the accounts it appears to me that in some of the workplaces the whole team were almost groomed to think certain things were ok. Again not specifically by him. There are videos of people saying yes it is only new people who found it odd.

3nanny6, which of my 'attitudes' is a problem for you?

I don't think I have responded directly to a post of yours, but I do disagree with the idea that if someone doesn't come forward immediately then they are either a liar or they should put up and shut up.

Have you never wondered if you could just possibly have been in the wrong? Said the wrong thing, put out the wrong signal, misunderstood something that was said, whether sexual or otherwise?

If you have, you might understand why a young and inexperienced woman who has been on the receiving end of 'unwanted advances' from someone senior to her, who had the power to have her written off as a troublemaker, and to limit her career forever might just hesitate and wonder whether to say something or keep quiet.

It is really only since the 'me too' movement that women have been able have any degree of confidence that they will be believed when they talk about incidents in the workplace that were brushed aside at the time, or in many cases to understand that these incidents were abusive.

Telling them that they are too late to speak up now, or that they should have been taught how to behave so that the incidents didn't happen is a slap in the face to these women and girls, particularly when it comes from other women, who could have been expected to be supportive.

That is my attitude, and I'm not ashamed of it.

Galaxy

I think it might help if we talked about workplace culture a lot. From reading the descriptions of one of the shows he has been on there has obviously been a very weird standard of behaviour (a lot of the things I have read involve other actors not him). I think it would have taken a very brave person to challenge what seems to have been going on.

Yes exactly. It’s not just about if the law was broken ( although it might have been).

The conversation could go round in circles for ever . Galaxy you are correct a young woman can wait as long as they want,
like I have said if the women could have reported the incidents at the time the police have at least got a log to build up and then information can be used as police intelligence. Also do you not think these women should have thought about reporting what could be described as crime because then they are putting information out there that could save another young woman going through a similar ordeal.
It is hard to get rape convictions but the police do try, I have a cousin in the sexual allegations/rape side of police and a few months ago when on a short break from work twice she had to get into work and drive hundreds of miles as an offender /someone of interest in the case had been detained miles away and she was expected to get on duty to deal with it whether she liked it or not.

Exactly Vickysponge.

I think it might help if we talked about workplace culture a lot. From reading the descriptions of one of the shows he has been on there has obviously been a very weird standard of behaviour (a lot of the things I have read involve other actors not him). I think it would have taken a very brave person to challenge what seems to have been going on.

If they cant get prosecutions for rape there is no way they would get prosecutions for 'lesser' complaints. Not a chance. Many wouldnt have met the criteria for prosecution. The thing is women can wait as long as they want. The other thing is I am really sorry but there is no way to teach young women to stay safe. It's mostly luck as horrible as that is to realise. The person you slapped in the face could have become violent. You can teach awareness but it doesnt really keep you safe.

3nanny6. It seems you think I have an “attitude’ problem. Your summary of my comments is inaccurate. I disagree strongly with your views.
Galaxy asks if you’ve read her post about the criminal justice system being unfit for purpose. Successful prosecutions of rape allegations are shamefully low. Women are reluctant to come forward for a variety of valid reasons.
NC’s behaviour has been well known in the industry. That’s his responsibility, not the fault of the women he victimised

Galaxy : I understand what you are saying but in regard of the Noel Clarke allegations there has been no mention of rape.
However the allegations the women are making are all sexual harassment and can be reported and documented by the police
which is why I say for the last time these women should have reported these incidents when they happened and not some 15 to 20 years later.

I am64 Are you referring to your post of 2ND May 18.46 where you say that men should be taught how to behave.
"Can you clarify who it is that should be teaching these men to behave as you did not say that.
You also pointed out that brothers and cousins should not really teach girls how to keep safe.
How do you work that out? Women and young girls are generally the target for males who are seeking gratification for their urges, and that is the way of the world a sad fact but the truth so if young women are taught to be aware and look out for any of those behaviours then so much the better for them. Myself and several of my female cousins have had unwanted attention from males and have been glad we at least knew how to look after ourselves.

Did you read the information I gave up thread on the succesful prosecution rate for rape, (under 2% I think it was) and the victims commissioners view that the system is not fit for purpose. The offences described would have got no where in that system.
Many women on social media have been aware of his comments on Twitter for some time so their opinions havent altered.

‘An attitude’, do you mean that myself, doodledog and well beck disagree with you 3nanny6? I can only respond for myself, yes i disagree and set out my reasons earlier.
‘An attitude’ - what exactly do you mean

Galaxy : The criminal Justice service is there for women who have been treated as they are reporting they have been.
At the first instance of these assaults/bullying/harassment they needed to report it immediately and go through the correct procedures. If the police have a case to build then they will, I reserve any judgement on Noel Clarke and really know little about him only in films and drama. He made spectacular contributions to the television and acting services hence he was awarded the highest award at the Baftas. Hate is now the full scale attitude for him out there
strange how things turn themselves around in about three weeks.

trisher

I did think it was an awful production, centred entirely on him and totally unbelievable.

Spot on

I have read his own words and am able to judge him as a misogynist.
Your faith in the criminal justice service to provide help for these women is naive.

IAM 64, DoodleDog, and WellBeck : I have noted that many of my comments on this thread have been met with an attitude
of myself making the wrong comments and that I am in the wrong.
I have no apologies to make about my life to any of you and the fact I had a good family support network where we were given information about keeping safe is the ultimate you can arm a young women with. The main thing is always tell someone about any episodes concerning any sexual exploitation and not stay quiet about it. Women do not have to scurry away and let themselves be humiliated and wear the submission badge and be walked over by men. If that makes me a strong woman then I embrace that even though I know men still make sexual innuendo to me even at my age but I deal with it.

In regard of Noel Clarke much of this judgement is guilty by social media (yes I know it was also in the Daily Mail) but much of it has been across the media.
The police are there to listen and make decisions in what actions they will take against any allegation of criminal activity. My thoughts about some of these women who have said they did not want to take police action at the time as they felt confused has not helped the matter. Many of the women should have gone to management and then reported incidents to the police, even if it meant they lost a part in a role in a film, what is more important at least they save themselves from any further attack.
I firmly believe that women and young girls have every right to live safely and be protected from any harm by another human being.
If Noel Clarke has done the things he is being accused of then let the police assess all information and decide what charges could be made against him.
It is not right to judge, find him guilty and make assumptions without the full evidence in front of us.

many women could not risk to slap a man as they then might get a fist in the face or worse.
so women have to survive, by keeping their heads down, scurrying away, or seeming to laugh at something humiliating, as being alive humiliated is preferable to being laid out for asserting one's rights.
it is a tricky balance. one women have to make every day.

I did think it was an awful production, centred entirely on him and totally unbelievable.

But the "system" is irrevocably involved in the way women are treated and is at the core of why that treatment continues. So an industry dominated by men uses women to shoot sex scenes and requires them to strip naked to even be considered for roles. Not surprisingly some of the men in that industry take things further. Of course it's wrong, but to imagine there is only one man doing this is not only naive it's dangerous. Basically what will happen as long as these practices are accepted is that occasional men will be denounced but the entrenched abuse will carry on.