Anne Boleyn

Oh my goodness. A girl could feel picked on. If she cared.

BTW - carrying over criticisms from other threads is frowned on. You'll never win the internet that way.

lemongrove

*Aleg*....there is no ‘winning the internet’ ( not even this forum or this particular thread, come to that.)
It’s just a discussion about casting, not a war.
As in politics, we all have different opinions which is fine, what
Isn’t fine, is posters trying to imply that those who like at least a modicum of historical accuracy in their tv programmes are thinking in a ‘racist’ way.
The thread didn’t start off that way, but increasingly, when posters saw that others didn’t agree with them, this rather desperate assertion of racism crept in.

I’d give up if I were you lemongrove. Yesterday, on the other Anne Boleyn thread, a very ‘wise and well read gransnetter,’ informed me, that even to say you have black friends is now considered racist! There’s nothing you can do with that, except retreat. ?

Aleg....there is no ‘winning the internet’ ( not even this forum or this particular thread, come to that.)
It’s just a discussion about casting, not a war.
As in politics, we all have different opinions which is fine, what
Isn’t fine, is posters trying to imply that those who like at least a modicum of historical accuracy in their tv programmes are thinking in a ‘racist’ way.
The thread didn’t start off that way, but increasingly, when posters saw that others didn’t agree with them, this rather desperate assertion of racism crept in.

theworriedwell

Yammy

You or I might know Anne Boleyn was white, I saw yesterday her brother George is also to be black.
How many Scots teenagers failed their exams for following the Mel Gibsons "Brave Heart "when most of the facts about William Wallace and the history of the time were wrong.

Doesn't matter does it, he was white and so was Mel Gibson.

Mel Gibson was white but he was Australian. As a Cumbrian, I laughed when I saw him playing Fletcher Christian. Though he did have a reasonable upper-class gents accent and was really dashing. Quite a lot of good scots actors could have played the part Sean Connery for one.
Shakespeare made a lot of historical errors in his plays,i.e. chimney pots in Rome in Julius Ceasar, he also set the ideas of a lot of people about Richard 111. He was anti-Semitic{Shylock] and so was Dickens{Fagin] but the ideas of the day were not the same as we have now.
They were plays some about countries he probably had never visited and as for Richard 111 some academics think he wrote it to please the Tudors. I have seen a Henry with Status Quo playing "We're in the Army now".
We know different now and have paintings to prove what these people in history actually looked like. How do teachers explain to children the inaccuracies they are viewing.
If to be politically correct and people are frowned on when they black up surely it is just as wrong to portray white people as black. It goes both ways.

theworriedwell

Aveline

Was Anne Boleyn of black African origin? No.

Aren't we all of black African origin?

theworriedwell wins the internet today...

Well the producer thinks its about colour, or he wouldn't have cast her.

desperate

Alegrias With no animosity intended Aveline, can you not see that saying the sight of a black person in Tudor garb is not authentically 16th Century, might just be a little bit incendiary?

Only to those to become inflamed!

Aveline

Was Anne Boleyn of black African origin? No.

Aren't we all of black African origin?

And again....” A film/play set in 1960s south Africa during apartheid. The story is set around a poverty stricken black woman and her struggle to bring up her family alone. If this part were portrayed by a white young man?”

The point of that is that being about apartheid the actor would have to be black as that’s the theme.

Boleyn’s story isn’t about her colour.

Lemongrove . Not long before the words “PC brigade” and “pull/play the race card” appear either,

I'm playing devils advocate here, but picture this:
A film/play set in 1960s south Africa during apartheid. The story is set around a poverty stricken black woman and her struggle to bring up her family alone. If this part were portrayed by a white young man?

Or the America civil war. The story centres around escaping slaves, and Chinese actors took the part of the slaves?

Or Mao zedong played by a Aboriginal female actor.

How would that feel to the respective audiences in those countries?

I think the whole point of making this program is to engage in this sort of discussion.

Not to expect people to be colour blind.

lemongrove

I wondered how long it would be before the PC brigade pulled the racist card.You get the trophy Doodledog ?
Pathetic.
I prefer any drama based on real people to be as accurate as possible.

Sorry, lemongrove. It wasn't me, it was Doodledog that you said it of.
You asked me not to accuse people of racism.

Fanny I do think it bothers you a lot, and you have ended up getting the wrong end of the stick.
We can agree or disagree with this drama casting.

FannyCornforth

How can it be not 'from a race angle'?
Also, I think that you misunderstand 'playing the race card'.
It's what people accused of racism accuse their accusers of.
Upthread I accused someone of racism.
Therefore, I could be accused of 'playing the race card'.
In fact I think that lemongrove did (I don't have a problem with this btw. I don't enjoy accusing people of being racist - it's just as I believed it to be.)
Sorry - I'm a bit waffley today...

No, Lemongrove didn’t, as it happens.

I, along with other posters who think that in a drama, Anne Boleyn should be played by a white actor because Boleyn was white, have had a few sneery remarks aimed at us insinuating that we must be racist or have racist thoughts.
To say an oft repeated phrase on GN... you couldn’t make it up!
It just shows how posters can get things horribly muddled and their own views of somebody else ‘being racist’ can be so wrong.

Aveline

Was Anne Boleyn of black African origin? No.

We're never going to get anywhere with this.
It either bothers you or not.
It doesn't bother me one iota.
It does bother you, quite a lot.

With no animosity intended Aveline, can you not see that saying the sight of a black person in Tudor garb is not authentically 16th Century, might just be a little bit incendiary?

Was Anne Boleyn of black African origin? No.

The dress in that photo seems to have a white collar of transparent material. I do hope it isn't made of nylon or any other man made fabric. If we are going for authenticity let's do it properly! Is that dress hand sewn???

Sack off, that should be, as in get shut of.

So are people of colour a new fangled modern thing?
This is getting ridiculous.
I'm so glad that I'm not so hung up about colour.

I've been thinking about the Les Mis story.
They were just casting the best people for the job, surely? Perhaps they couldn't find a little black girl who was good enough to play the role. Should they have cast a substandard young black actress, and overlook the white girl?
Or just sack of the older black actress, because it was just all too problematic?

I'm baffled, and frankly a bit shocked, that this casting decision provoked such a strong, even visceral, reaction.

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202105/medium-968193-28945576-10213429556748212-391741918-o.jpg https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202105/medium-869687-black-tudor-portrait-2.jpg

Authentically 16th Century.

I've just seen the photographs of this new Anne Boleyn. Visually, it just doesn't look right especially as all the costumes and sets are authentically 16th century. Why not just do it in modern dress if key details are to be so radically altered?

How can it be not 'from a race angle'?
Also, I think that you misunderstand 'playing the race card'.
It's what people accused of racism accuse their accusers of.
Upthread I accused someone of racism.
Therefore, I could be accused of 'playing the race card'.
In fact I think that lemongrove did (I don't have a problem with this btw. I don't enjoy accusing people of being racist - it's just as I believed it to be.)
Sorry - I'm a bit waffley today...

I quote: Why is a black woman playing Anne Boleyn? Has this been done to appease those who want to change our history?

Not from a racial or PC angle? Aye, right.