Ridley Road- surely the wrong time.

Doodledog

Early

No, LincsLass. That's not what I meant. In the novel Ridley Road Vivien Epstein's landlady and employer are Netty Levy and Barb Wiseman and are Jewish. trisher and I are questioning why the names have been changed for the dramatisation.

You need to see it to the end before commenting on that, really. It is all on iPlayer.

I thought the last episode was a bit silly, but overall it was a good drama, if a bit heavy on the 'in case you don't understand why this is important, I will have a character explain it in simple language' dialogue.

I didn’t realise it was all on iPlayer. It’s on my list

Early

No, LincsLass. That's not what I meant. In the novel Ridley Road Vivien Epstein's landlady and employer are Netty Levy and Barb Wiseman and are Jewish. trisher and I are questioning why the names have been changed for the dramatisation.

You need to see it to the end before commenting on that, really. It is all on iPlayer.

I thought the last episode was a bit silly, but overall it was a good drama, if a bit heavy on the 'in case you don't understand why this is important, I will have a character explain it in simple language' dialogue.

Actually as a drama I quite enjoyed it. And some of the period features were great, there was a close up of her shoes and I had some exactly like them. I can enjoy things and still look at them carefully.

This is a very interesting discussion. We can only speculate as to why the BBC changed this or that, but it is certainly true that many Jewish people Anglicised (is that the right spelling?) their names so that they would not sound Jewish. Remember it was less than twenty years since the war and the Holocaust ended. I’ve never read this book, but when books are turned into drama, things often appear to be different from the book. Some people like the changes, others don’t. Anyway I’m looking forward to seeing the rest of the series. As Pippa says, no piece of drama will satisfy everyone.

No, LincsLass. That's not what I meant. In the novel Ridley Road Vivien Epstein's landlady and employer are Netty Levy and Barb Wiseman and are Jewish. trisher and I are questioning why the names have been changed for the dramatisation.

If you read the full text of Jordan's July 1 1962 Trafalgar Square speech you will see that he uses the word Coloured no less than 28 times, fourteen of those in the phrase Coloured Invasion - his capitals.

Fit.

trisher

Anniebach

Why would the BBC want to dilute the Jewish element in a drama about anti semitism?

We can only speculate about that, but changing Jewish names to more English ones is surely diluting the Jewish element isn't it?

Unfortunately that is what Jewish people felt they had to do, so their names would fir it, ?

trisher

Anniebach

Why would the BBC want to dilute the Jewish element in a drama about anti semitism?

We can only speculate about that, but changing Jewish names to more English ones is surely diluting the Jewish element isn't it?

Over time, many immigrants have changed their names to become more British to avoid racism.

Firstly, I’m saving the series until all episodes have been broadcast and I wasn’t aware that it was advertised as part of black history month.

As it is set in 1962 the memories of the Holocaust would still have been at the forefront of many people’s understanding of anti-semitism. The battle of Cable Street took place in 1936 to prevent Moseley’s fascists from marching through the East End.

It wasn’t until 1968 and Powell’s rivers of blood speech that the problems of the black community came to the forefront in the national media.

Yes, of course the Black communities suffered from racism just as the Jewish community or many others had done before them.

I would have thought that during Black History Month it would have been more appropriate to examine the privations of the West Indian and Asian communities in urban areas.

To Jordan and the NSM, Jews and black people were all part of the same problem.
Thanks Early I think that is the main problem and it seems the BBC is now perpetuating that by diluting the black and Jewish element it seems such an odd thing to do.

Anniebach

Why would the BBC want to dilute the Jewish element in a drama about anti semitism?

We can only speculate about that, but changing Jewish names to more English ones is surely diluting the Jewish element isn't it?

trisher Well, if Netty and Barb’s names have been changed from Levy and Wiseman (or Weissman*) to Jones and Watson, it certainly sounds so.

* I'm listening so can't see the words on the page.

I’m half way through the audio book which is essentially (so far) a very lightweight romance full of clichéd dialogue and cartoon East End salt-of-the earth characters and a lot of waffle about hairdressing and finger-painting jam onto bread in Netty’s kitchen (!!!)… but the kernel of the story of the 43 and 62 groups and the NSM is there.

Vivien Epstein is a silly, giddy girl who, I suspect would would never attract serious Times investigative journalist Jack Fox/Morris in real life. The name change is soon explained but you can see it coming a mile off.

I haven’t watched the TV drama yet but I’m guessing Sarah Solemani has just taken the serious element and developed it into something darker. Would that be right? I’ve read Lucy Mangan’s Guardian review and it sounds like Solemani has made a lot of changes.

Here’s the thing that worries me. The text of Jordan’s speech is easy to find online and it is littered with references to The Coloured Invasion of Britain (this is mentioned in the book) which he and his party insist is a Jewish plot to provide their businesses with cheap labour which will undermine British wages and living standards and that black and white people will breed together to create a “mongrel race”. It’s repulsive stuff. If this has been admitted from the dialogue and visuals (has it?) it’s a deliberate and bad omission (imo) and distorts what the NSM were saying and doing. To Jordan and the NSM, Jews and black people were all part of the same problem.

I think we all know that books do not translate directly onto the screen. I felt the first episode was excellent. For me, it will be worth following.

It seems picky to start criticising it after one episode. Surely, you either decide to watch or not watch.

No piece of drama will satisfy everyone.

Why would the BBC want to dilute the Jewish element in a drama about anti semitism?

Early do these name changes indicate that the BBC has attempted to dilute the Jewish element in the story? Now that is really worrying.

maddyone

Ridley Road is not about black people, not everything is about black people. It’s about Jewish people, and anti semitism. Why exactly is that apparently a problem?

I agree maddy I actually know very little about anti semitism and Jewish history so I am looking forward to watching Ridley Road. Haven’t yet as I’m out of the country but will catch up when I’m home.

I have binged the first three episodes (it is all on iPlayer), and think that it's very much from the viewpoint of Vivien, who is, of course, Jewish, and involved with the Jewish resistance to the Fascists. Other things are going on (eg the experiences of the black lad at the hands of the police), but the story is specifically about the resistance.

I don't think it is incongruous to show it as part of Black History Month, as it is about racism which is abhorrent in all its guises.

trisher

And Barb the owner of the hair salon is Wiseman (Weissman?) in the book and Barbara Watson according to imdb. Tamsin Outhwaite.

Also Stevie is a blonde Billy Fury type rock and roll drummer in the book looking rather different to Gabriel Akuwudike who plays him - again I'm looking at imdb. Vivien's try out for Barb's salon is to cut and style Stevie's hair so he looks like his idol.

Bluebell I'm sorry for your experience however this is just a television programme based on a book. I don't appreciate the way you have worded your answer to me, it being in bold and your emoji towards me.
I find it very rude, insulting and hurtful.

Early

I haven't watched this yet, but after reading and posting on this thread a couple of times, I decided to listen to the audio book of Jo Bloom's novel Ridley Road on which the drama is based. I am only an hour into an eight hour listen but prejudice against black people is there in the early chapters.

When Vivien Epstein arrives in Hackney and takes up lodgings with Netty Levy, she is sitting with Netty on Shabbos and sees a photo of Netty's late anti-Fascist activist husband Archie involved in a protest. There is a Keep Britain White banner in the photo.

When Vivien goes looking for Jack Fox at the address in Bow which she found on a letter from Jack to her late father, she sees many signs in windows saying; No Coloured, no Irish, No Dogs.

Are these particular scenes in the drama? If these details are not shown then that is a serious omission.

If they did, can you imagine the outcry for displaying such signs. Trouble is people think stories are real, and they would have to put a disclaimer on. what’s happening to this country where our history has to be hidden or destroyed because it doesn’t suit some.

So glad it was the first episode! I didn't see the very beginning and thought I had missed more than I obviously did.

She's Netty Levy in the book and Jewish. Jack is Jack Fox in the book which I think has been changed to Morris. Interesting. Why? I shall listen on ...

Early thanks for that. The character she lodges with in the TV series is called Netty Jones (played by Rita Tushingam). Does the name change in the book?
I never saw any notices .

I haven't watched this yet, but after reading and posting on this thread a couple of times, I decided to listen to the audio book of Jo Bloom's novel Ridley Road on which the drama is based. I am only an hour into an eight hour listen but prejudice against black people is there in the early chapters.

When Vivien Epstein arrives in Hackney and takes up lodgings with Netty Levy, she is sitting with Netty on Shabbos and sees a photo of Netty's late anti-Fascist activist husband Archie involved in a protest. There is a Keep Britain White banner in the photo.

When Vivien goes looking for Jack Fox at the address in Bow which she found on a letter from Jack to her late father, she sees many signs in windows saying; No Coloured, no Irish, No Dogs.

Are these particular scenes in the drama? If these details are not shown then that is a serious omission.