Polly Toynbee.

that’s apparently good enough for the children of others, who don’t have money

A bad school is not good enough for any child. Making choices for your own children does not mean that you think the bad schools are "good enough" for any child at all. You know they are bad and care deeply that children are being fobbed off with such poor quality.

maddyone

You’ve just reminded me of another descriptor of champagne socialism Monica. Those who can afford to buy an expensive house in an expensive area in order to ensure their children can go to the ‘right’ state school. And boast about it often. My child went to a state school, from people who would no more send their child to a bog standard state comprehensive than they would fly to the moon. Think Tony Blair, his boys went to The London Oratory. Says it all really.

Brompton Oratory ( as it is known) is a Catholic school and Cherie Blair is a life long Catholic.

I think that some of you are forgetting or may not be aware that parts of central London that are now very expensive, were back in the 60s and 70s affordable for many people to buy houses. Knightsbridge and Holland Park and parts of Kensington and Chelsea were expensive. I remember visiting an aunt of my my mother who lived in Islington and it was very working class back then. There are many poor people in Islington, some times cheek by jowel with the rich.

As London became a rich city with increasing numbers of people wanting to live there, the acceptable areas expanded. I can remember the time when taxis would not go south of the river and people who lived north of the Thames were very sniffy about those who lived south. I share a flat in what became known as The Toast Rack in Wandsworth. We did not have a bathroom and so used to go down the hill to the local baths, otherwise it was a strip wash at the kitchen sink.

Finally, the catchment area for Holland park Comp includes Shepherds Bush which was not a posh area.

I also support the right of parents to try to ensure their children get the best possible education, but it’s disingenuous in the extreme to buy an expensive house in an expensive area, that the majority cannot afford, so that your child can access an education in a top state school, and you can boast that you use the state system, when if you were forced to use the bog standard comprehensive (that’s apparently good enough for the children of others, who don’t have money) you would simply pay for a private school. It’s win, win, win, because you get a top education for your child and a lovely house in a nice area that will gain much value over the years. Meanwhile some poorer parents, who can’t afford such a house, choose a private education and are castigated for their choice, as Labour MPs clamour to tax private schools or even abolish them altogether. Simply disingenuous!

I would never judge anyone for the decisions they make about their children's education. You can both support state education and be aware that the school in your area is the pits.
You have the right to choose the best you can for your children whilst at the same time fighting for educational improvement in state schools. Children only get one crack at the whip when it comes to education and as a parent we have to do our best for them - this is not incompatible with supporting the principle of good state education and fighting for that.

There are some truly crap schools round here - if I were a parent now I would simply choose the best I could afford, whilst at the same time using my vote and any other clout I might have to boost the quality of state education. Parents do not have a magic wand to make state education better - I am sure they wish they had.

David Owen!
Autocorrect again.

I am devastated to hear that she has become member of the Lib Dems, where can I go now? I will just have to grit my teeth and take the rough with the smooth. The Lib Dems to have a history of attracting odd balls, and dodgy characters, from Jeremy Thorpe, to Charles Kennedy and Nick Clegg

I don't know why that made me laugh M0nica but it did 😂
Thank you for that!

I always voted Liberal because I liked Jeremy Thorpe and thought they were more principled than either of the other two main parties (before the scandals!).
Menzies Campbell, Paddy Ashdown, David Steele, David Own, Shirley Williams, all brought more gravitas to politics than a lot of the present-day politicians

It was Nick Clegg who put me off, too polished, too slick and too ready to abandon principles for power.

Since then, they seem to be rather lost.

You’ve just reminded me of another descriptor of champagne socialism Monica. Those who can afford to buy an expensive house in an expensive area in order to ensure their children can go to the ‘right’ state school. And boast about it often. My child went to a state school, from people who would no more send their child to a bog standard state comprehensive than they would fly to the moon. Think Tony Blair, his boys went to The London Oratory. Says it all really.

Monica you’ve just reminded me of Charles Kennedy. I really liked him. It was such a sad end to his life.

I think Holland Park Comp is a 'bog standard' comp these days but back in 70s-80s, when the children of a previous generation of Labour politicians and intellectuals (of whom Polly Toynbee was one) were being educated it was almost as elite as Eton. Stuffed with the offspring of the left wing politicians and academics. player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/watch-comprehensive-school-1962-online

Holland Park school was followed by Haverstock Comprehensive in North London, on the Hampstead boundaries, where all the Labour intellectuals that couldn't afford to live in the Holland Park catchment lived. www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/aug/02/haverstock-school-labour-leaders-eton The Milliband brothers went there among others.

The issue of appearance and sex is contentious, Boris's shambolic fell out of bed and then went through a hedge backwrds look, has been highly and vocally criticised, and quite rightly so, when he was the political leader of this country, photographs of him, with other world leaders, seemed to summarise the state of Britian, rundown, disorganised and a failing power.

With women it is more difficult. Many people used to comment on Shirley Williams untidiness and lack of dress centre, but actually in quite a kind sense, there was more the feeling of a nice and kind, but intellectually very savvy woman and a good politician, who just didn't have an interest in how she looked.

I suspect if Polly Toynbee looks less than perfectly groomed on tv, it will be deliberate decision, possibly as a way of polishing her true feminist principles.

I am devastated to hear that she has become member of the Lib Dems, where can I go now? I will just have to grit my teeth and take the rough with the smooth. The Lib Dems to have a history of attracting odd balls, and dodgy characters, from Jeremy Thorpe, to Charles Kennedy and Nick Clegg.

I don’t hold with the sisterhood stuff Dickens
If I want to criticise Boris ( and I sure have!) for the way he looked I also feel free to criticise PT if I want to.
One is your opinion, fine, and that’s my opinion, also fine.

Btw anyone who thought Holland Park Comp was just an average Comp is wrong, a much sought after school with well off parents dying to get their kids in there.

Oreo

Dickens

Oreo

Not a fan!
Patronising, arrogant and sour as other posters say.She also needs to get her roots done or choose a different hairstyle😬

She also needs to get her roots done or choose a different hairstyle😬

<<< sigh >>>

Was wondering who would be the first sanctimonious comment would come from😄
It’s a real distraction when she’s on tv, which unfortunately is often given that she’s a real self publicist, all you notice are the glaring grey roots on the dyed gingery blonde hair as the top part is dragged back and secured with a slide, urrrgh!

Was wondering who would be the first sanctimonious comment would come from😄

When a woman criticises another for her opinion but feels it necessary to add a barb about her appearance, it does make me sigh. We complain about men making personal comments on high-profile women's looks, and I just think it's a bloody shame that we indulge in the same thing.

If that makes me sanctimonious, so be it. And I'm not a fan of Toynbee.

TerriBull

Absolutely fine enjoying the fruits of one's hard work and be left leaning, life's not all sackcloth and ashes.

As stated up thread, I think to declare your allegiance to the Labour party, to be a spokesperson for them, to profess to support socialist ideals and then to send your children to private school is crossing a massive red line. As a committed socialist one would believe in equal opportunities and a level playing field, so to flout a very basic tenet because somehow it doesn't apply to you and yours, I don't understand, not even a little bit!

Absolutely this, well said TerriBull. Those who state that comprehensive schools are good for all children, and want the private schools to pay extra taxes or even be abolished, and then send their children to private schools really do fit the term champagne socialist in my opinion. As I said before, my grandmother would have said they are do as I say, not as I do people.

that should be hob nobbing not nobbington but nobbington! but a nobbington sounds like it could be a word to describe certain ex politicians!

Yes Peter never did quite get Peter Mandelson hob nobbingon Oligarch's yachts with the obnoxious ten or is 12 jobs now, ex Chancellor, Osborne

I do agree, Terribull

Don't forget those at the top in the Post Office, moved to other jobs and Fujitsu, just awarded another lucrative Government contract despite having suicides and the imprisonment of innocent people on their consciences.

Those people who have been helped by the Prince's Trust speak very highly of Charles, his personal involvement and interest in improving the lives of so many young people and his ongoing interest in what they have achieved.

So is Charles what you might term "a Champagne Socialist"?
Well-off, in some ways privileged, but wanting to improve the lives others?
He seems to fit the description.

Champagne Socialists - who can forget what Peter Mandelson said.

Absolutely fine enjoying the fruits of one's hard work and be left leaning, life's not all sackcloth and ashes.

As stated up thread, I think to declare your allegiance to the Labour party, to be a spokesperson for them, to profess to support socialist ideals and then to send your children to private school is crossing a massive red line. As a committed socialist one would believe in equal opportunities and a level playing field, so to flout a very basic tenet because somehow it doesn't apply to you and yours, I don't understand, not even a little bit!

GrannyGravy13

paddyann54

I'm hoping they'll all be shown the door a lot sooner than 25 years .What DOES it take to get the blinkers off about these parasites ?

Once you call human beings parasites you have lost the argument Paddyann54

There are people I would label as parasites, possibly ex boss of Persimmon who was taking away £40,000,000 whilst his company's builds were often collapsing around the ears of those who purchased them, constantly complaining that Persimmon did little to rectify their faults. Health chiefs who quit on enormous salaries having failed miserably only to head up another trust at an equally large salary, really just anyone who fails upwards and there would be a few. Added to those all the people who got contracts apropos of Covid and made off with outrageous amounts of public money, energy company bosses whose firms collapsed again they still had millions in their back pocket. Parasites all and no culpability.

I'm not an avid royalist, neither am i wildly anti, it's hard to quantify how much their good works counter- balance their privilege, born into a life not of their choosing. In fact many would regard living within such strict parameters too much of a price to pay. I don't regard Charles as a parasite, something of the patrician air about him maybe,? but parasite no!. He started the Prince's Trust the testaments of many beneficiaries, I believe Idris Elba was one, have stated that help was a pivotal life changer., So even if helped just one individual, from a disadvantaged background, on to a successful career path that would be worthwhile, but what in fact that was dozens, hundreds, thousands even, then that initiative alone is enough to say that his contribution on this earth has been worthwhile.

Just my opinion, others may not agree.

I have no brief for Polly Toynbee and no opinion on the original article, but for clarity:
Polly Toynbee is a Liberal Democrat, not a socialist.

Exactly, Dinahmo and Iam64.

Dinahmo, absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to help people improve their lives, work, children’s education etc etc. it isn’t something we have seen demonstrated by the Tory party over the last 12 years. It seems to me there’s resentment and jealousy towards successful lefties, or those like Toynbee who grew up with a degree of privilege

Somebody please tell me what's wrong with being a champagne socialist? Coming from a privileged background she could easily have been a Tory. She actually went to Holland Park comprehensive, having failed her 11 plus.

I find it interesting that middle class lefties who are Socialists or Liberals should be castigated for the left wing leanings whilst at the same time they have money to spend. I'm not aware of any who say you should do this whilst I do that. They want to help people improve their lives, work, childrens' education etc etc. What's so wrong with that?

Whitewave - I see myself as a champagne socialist. I’ve worked hard from 17-62 when RA meant I’d to finish work 2 years earlier than I planned. Lucky me with my Gold Plated public service pension, that alongside paying in extra and saving as well means if I’m really celebrating I drink champagne.

A champagne Socialist professes to be a staunch Labour supporter but votes Lib Dem, or Green, (tactical voting);
who sends their children to state schools, but only those with select catchment areas;
who was horrified when the local comprehensive considered going grant maintained until they discovered proposed boundary changes meant that children from a notorious council estate would be admitted to the school, whereupon grant maintained (control over admissions) suddenly became acceptable;
who deeply disapprove of private health care until they need an operation, and says, and I quote: I have had two holidays this year spoilt because of my medical complaint / postponed operation, and I am not missing my third;
or: I deeply disapprove of private health care and wouldn't use it but my husband has BUPA care through his work and insists I have to use it;
a person who puts the life savings of his father, who lived in a subsidised council house all his life, into an offshore account in his name so that 'when he needs to go into care he won't have to pay any fees', and boasts openly about it.
All the above are completely true and all live within spitting distance.
Basically, well-off hypocrites.

I thought the tabloids were nauseatingly pro Meghan!

Clawdy

" Meghan had loads of encouragement and support and public applause..." Really?? The foul right-wing tabloids were against her from the start and determined to portray her as badly as they could. The racism she endured was horrendous.

The tabloids were also against Kate for a much longer time and picked her and her family to pieces.