Casualty- Jan takes Gethin to Dignitas in Switzerland

My brother and I both wish we could have allowed our mum to go to Switzerland for a dignified end!instead she struggled and experienced too much despite the care of the wonderful hospice! She didn’t have control or choice
I have joined the organisation as I feel we are very behind with our thinking in the UK

I am a member of Dignity in Dying as I do not want to suffer at the end of my life. My dogs and cat had a better death than some of my family and friends.

I am not sure about it being available on the NHS, to be honest.

I think that it is much better to totally separate treating/caring medical teams, and help with assisted suicide, to ensure all accusations of 'slippery slope' are addressed.

Mildred22

I am a member of Dignity in Dying as I do not want to suffer at the end of my life. My dogs and cat had a better death than some of my family and friends.

Certainly, especially as we always have the vet to come and pts at home- so our pets can go without the stress of having to travel to a place that stresses them. At home, in their own bed, held lovingly but their loved ones. Having to travel abroad and die in a flat on an industrial estate is so so stressful and un-necessary. And so is doing so knowing that your partner, AC, friend, may well be prosecuted for supporting you in such a caring and loving way. Cruel beyond cruel.

I will watch it and I do wish we’d take a better view and attitude to those with terminal illnesses and life limiting conditions. We don’t treat our pets by prolonging a painful and terminal illness.

Yes, it would have to be very carefully and strictly monitored but I truly believe people should have the choice on when and how to end their lives with dignity

A member of my family accompanied someone to Dignitas and has said since that should she be diagnosed with a terminal illness or dementia she would book immediately. She said it was a peaceful and dignified end, and for her there were no repercussions.

Canada has introduced same system as Switzerland.

There is no such law governing assisted dying in Scotland. The charge is murder, culpable homicide or reckless endangerment.

In Scotland, if someone helps a loved one prepare for a trip to Dignitas in Switzerland, and accompanies them to hold their hand on the day, they will NOT be prosecuted on return- unlike in rest of UK.

I watched this programme. I agree that people should be able to choose assisted dying in the UK but absolutely not on the NHS. As Fleurpepper says, caring and healing needs to be completely separated from assisted death. And absolutely no NHS staff should be made to take part in assisted dying. Only staff who want to perform this work should be able to work in this area.

I belong to Dignity in Dying as I firmly believe (for myself and others who want this option) it is a decision that needs to be taken by an individual who is unable to suffer any longer ...I also am in touch with Dignitas and have read through all their legal rules and regulations. I have discussed this with my GP and also read the very in depth position the BMA takes. Dignitas requests your medical records from your doctor ...the practice has to have a meeting to discuss this request and agree to let Dignitas have access to them. You must then travel (normally) yourself to Switzerland for an interview and assessment of your mental capacity to make an informed decision .......they will then request your records, and finally will offer you an appointment. Although the administration of the final second dose of the necessary chemical has to be done by yourself following an anti emitic you will have a medical person from Dignitas to supervise. EVEN up to a minute before you administer this, you have the right to cancel immediately. You can pay around Euro / £200 to register, and you have to pay the £/E 12,000 up front. In fact, the NHS DOES practice euthanasia by another name ...as in the cases of elderly people being returned to care homes having tested positive for COVID ...as in withdrawing life support in some cases,,,,,,although they will not admit it. I am too much of a coward to otherwise do it myself, and cannot obviously expect anyone to assist me as they would be prosecuted...SO dreadful that the UK Government will not condone your right of choice concerning your own life. Animals who suffer can be euthanised ...without a choice on their part ! I wrote to my MP asking him to support this bill through parliament earlier this year...his response NO, we cannot support this Bill as we have excellent palliative care available and excellent end of life care ..............OH YES ???? and I enquired as to where exactly, there was, surprisingly no reply...........there is no longer hospice care available in a hospice, no palliative care in a place qualified to do so, i e a hospital, NO home care .....I have seen people simply left to die in their own homes, on their own, with no family and paying carers for the hour a day they can afford .........awful ! DiD holds conferences every now and then both in this country and others ......I have yet to get to one but will be buying their publications available from their website/ So many people now support this, it should be included in the manifesto at the next election !

very moving and acted and produced very well i agree we should have the choice of dying with dignity if we have a terminal or serious illness and i have joined dignity with dying

ALAN, you are so right about the palliative care- the few great hospices we have in UK are run by charities and are very limited in space. They do an amazing job, and I have several friends who died at the wonderful local (charity run) Hospice.

But, even if great palliative care was available to all- it is not for everyone. It should definitely be one of the choices- and Assisted Dying just another. And for some diseases, palliative care (one 'l' or two?, sorry), just does not work anyhow. So yes, the CHOICE should be there, in the UK, in your own home, as in Switzerland for people who are resident there. Dignitas is only for foreigners who do not have a home where they can die in peace, in their own bed, favourite chair, or even, if secluded, in the garden, listening to the birds.

And certainly wihout the fear that, if a loved one helps you with the travel, and comes to hold your hand, they are at risk of prosecution on their return.

I watched this on catch-up last night and absolutely agree that this country urgently need reforms to the legal system. I will never be able to afford to get to Switzerland even should circumstances make it a palatable option, but it certainly should not mean criminal implications if anyone travelled with me.

Fleurpepper thank you for this. I certainly do not want to end up as a cabbage! I had a friend who was a doctor and he prescribed medication for a patient (who had no hope) to help him to end it all. He was reported and struck off. He was a very caring man! My MIL always went around the house exclaiming "Wish I were dead'. this did upset me,, I mentioned it to him. He said with her problems she was bound to have enough medication to finish it off if she really meant it. I eventually told her that and never heard another mention of it again!

That Dignitas episode on Casualty , which was so well produced in every way, shows us how drama and stories inform the public far better than explicit explanations and descriptions. Well done BBC!

Shinamae

I am all for assisted dying, but the problem is with dementia. You don’t get the chance because you cannot up to the last minute say you want to do it.
I did say to my doctor awhile ago, I should be able to come to you with my solicitor and make my wishes clear,if I am terminally ill or have severe dementia that I would be eligible for assisted dying, he agreed with me but said it won’t happen any time soon. 😬
I have yet to watch this, but I did watch the Terry Pratchett documentary a few years ago, where he accompanied a man to Dignitas ,it was very very moving, especially as Terry did die of this terrible disease eventually..

One of my friends from Dignity in Dying has a slow progressing form of Alzheimers. He has been registered with LifeCircle for some time (LifeCircle does not take on new registries- but its sister 'Pegasos' does)- the key now is for him to decide when to go. It is a very very fine line- and a sudden spurt of 'progress' in the disease could mean that he misses his time, and finds himself unable to demonstrate that he is fully compos mentis.

I keep thinking about Ken Livingstone- and what I would do in his place. the thing with dementia/Alzheimers, is that you either make the very clear decision to 'go' too early- or risk missing your chance, and be condemned to the indignities to the bitter end.

I have told my daughters that I would make the clear choice to go too early- because the prospect of missing the chance to go before to late is much much worse. OH fully agrees- and DDs, after the initial shock, now totally understand- having witnessed their grand-mothers terrible end, and other relatives.

Saying that, however, is much easier than done. It would take great determination and courage to go when still relatively well, with some decent quality of life. At least we would be able to do so in our own home.

I recorded the casualty episode dealing with this, and I’m just sitting down to watch it now …

What did you think?

My main thought that it was absolutely terrible that they had to go abroad to do that. My heart went out to both of them…(extremely well acted)
I’m pretty sure if there was a referendum, it would go to assisted dying
I still think what I put in my previous post that I should be able to go to my Doctor with a solicitor and a witness and state my preferences for end-of-life now while I am of sound mind 🤷‍♀️

Clear advanced directives, when you are still in good health- are still very useful to make. To indicate clearly your wishes, and also to back up relatives if they do have to support you in your journey- so it is clear it is very much YOUR choice.

Fleurpepper

Clear advanced directives, when you are still in good health- are still very useful to make. To indicate clearly your wishes, and also to back up relatives if they do have to support you in your journey- so it is clear it is very much YOUR choice.

I do have an advance directive with my Doctor and I have tried to talk to my children about it, but they are obviously very reluctant to discuss such things BUT they do know…

I’m pretty sure if there was a referendum, it would go to assisted dying.

I’m sure it would too, but we’ll never be given the chance to vote on it I suspect. I’m unsure why the politicians are not in favour of it. Obviously there would need to be very stringent regulation, but it can be done, as shown on the programme which I believe reflected the situation in Switzerland. We could never expect medical staff to take any part in the process unless they were committed and able to do so without repercussions of conscience for themselves. For certain, if I were a medic, I don’t think I could be involved in it, even though I agree with it. I don’t know why. But there obviously are medics who are prepared to help people in this way as has been shown by other countries. Then there’s the cost considerations as I don’t believe it should be provided by the NHS. It must be available to all at an affordable cost, or paid for for by charity, or government funded but not by channelling money through the NHS.
There would be a lot to consider, but it could be done.

The part I found most moving was when Gethin got really upset and frightened in case he wasn't't able to swallow the liquid. That part touched my heart; and the acting!@

One volunteer Dr, from Exit Switzerland- helped rig up a system with a pulley, for a person who was suffering from Motor Neurone disease, with a scarf, to help her with the drink. But on the day, she was too weak and could not manage and begged and begged the doctor to help her- which she did. She was arrested and prosecuted through the Courts. She knew she would, and yet just could not say no to a desperately sick and determined woman.