Groomed. A National scandal Ch 4 - Wed 30 April 9 pm

I do agree Galaxy "child prostitute" the term really shouldn't exist. Children are mere pawns, used, sold, manipulated, coerced, bartered and abused the child cannot make a conscious choice whatever the context, either here or a poverty ridden country abroad or referring to past times. The term kind of sanctions something so very wrong giving the men who consort with a minor a warped lack of their own complicity, in a "it wasn't my fault, the child tempted me and made themselves available" They know what they do is wrong, but it's blame shifting.

Galaxy and TerriBull many thanks.

Language is so important.

Very good point. Until you find out what actually really happens, it sounds far milder.

winterwhite

I'm afraid I haven't heard of Maggie Oliver. Victim support is vital so this sounds timely.

IMO these documentaries seem to dwell too much on the alleged shortcomings of police officers and social workers, which does no good except to make these jobs even more difficult to recruit to.
We need more focus on how to better fund these services, so that burn-out in these important roles is not so high. And we need much better support for parents of teenagers. And we need to make sure that the government acts on its knowledge that these issues matter and are difficult, and that it funds them accordingly. Now.

They "dwell" on the police and social services because they are the agencies who have let all these young women down. Perhaps Google Maggie Oliver, before being dismissive of her.

winterwhite

I'm afraid I haven't heard of Maggie Oliver. Victim support is vital so this sounds timely.

IMO these documentaries seem to dwell too much on the alleged shortcomings of police officers and social workers, which does no good except to make these jobs even more difficult to recruit to.
We need more focus on how to better fund these services, so that burn-out in these important roles is not so high. And we need much better support for parents of teenagers. And we need to make sure that the government acts on its knowledge that these issues matter and are difficult, and that it funds them accordingly. Now.

Maggie Oliver was a serving detective in the Police. She was aware of these Asian grooming gangs and these young kids confided in her. She realised the problem was massive and far bigger than she first thought. She spoke to colleagues in the Police, social services, teachers, children’s homes etc who all knew what was going on but dare not say anything for fear of being called racist.

She was so furious and upset that she resigned from the Police knowing that she could do more if she set up her own Foundation.

I don't think winterwhite was dismissive of Maggie Oliver or her story and wonderful work, just literally she hadn't heard of her.

Quite right to criticise those who failed to act specifically because of what you allude to, Primrose, back when it was happening, but what matters now is putting the Jay report into effect and proper resourcing and training whatever the backgrounds of the offenders are.

Yes these grooming gangs have been going on for over thirty years .. a friend of mine her sisters daughter was groomed and had a son who is not 30 which her parents have brought up . All governments were to frightened of being called racist to help these children Gordon Brown wouldn't help so sad

Yes there were specific issues with some of the gangs but we were not dealing well with gangs or indeed individuals who sexually abused others in that period or before.

It was common for victims not to be believed and assumptions being made about them and low rates of prosecution.

It certainly wasn't all about the racist issue despite the narratives that have been created around it. Why do people persist in continually only referring to non white abuse during a certain period when we have to look at a history of changes in the ability to identify and prosecute all the crimes and look ahead to "what now".

I can recommend "Broken and Betrayed' by Jayne Senior. It is a very well written account of her time as a youth leader in Rotherham. The failure to act by the police and social services was not accidental, it was deliberate.

Well known and accepted.

Sorry that comes across as somewhat brusque.

However, as well as many of us being very aware of events for years, we've had 4 threads on the issues since January, others before, and on each one we've seen an attempt to focus only on the grooming and abuse by Asian Gangs sometimes to the exclusion of all the issues raised on this thread...

..... the very helpful suggestions (including from one poster who has worked in the field) how resources are needed to deal with these problems still happening right now.

It's the same victim blaming that the police used during the ripper enquiry, it was somehow OK for the murders to remain unsolved when the victims were perceived to be prostitutes but once an "innocent" victim was murdered they took the murders more seriously, just blame the women and girls, honestly describing the children as prostitutes and treating them as such is also abusive

I’m not disputing, or minimising the absolute brazen attitudes shown by the men in the so called grooming gangs. The damage they do to children who are already emotionally and psychologically harmed, is immense and life long.
I keep coming back to the question, why is child sexual abuse such a common behaviour?
Why is joining the gang rape of an 11 year old out of her head on drugs/alcohol in any way attractive ?
Why is introducing / grooming your 3 year old daughter/niece/boy child sexually appealing to adult men.
I recognise the OP is focussed on the ‘grooming gangs’. They aren’t the only organised abuse gangs operating. We have small children used in videos, suffering horrific abuse, crying yet some people/men find this sexually arising.

^Blaming the children is part of the process, it is part of the abuse and I guess how the men 'justify' it to themselves.
I know it seems a small thing but I do think we should think about the language we as a society use, we see the term child prostitute used or child porn, you can't be a child prostitute, it is abuse and should be named as such^

I agree

To reply to Wyllow3s post

On a small level, people should change the words of others if they personally hear them.

med level - sites like this and other online sites - again change the words.

In an ideal world all parents and guardians would be teaching the right from wrong in all of this.
But we all know that does not always happen.
And not all children obey their parents either.

I also think Christians can play their part in this. And pray about the whole thing.

I do think that the cultural issue cannot be overlooked.

*Anna Hall on radio 4.
If you don’t listen I’d point out that a manager of a care home called her this morning to say that a child went missing from the home 2? Days ago.
She reported it to the police and *the police have not responded*😡
Anna also told woman’s hour that numerous people have told her that *the situation now is worse than it’s ever been 🤬

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live/bbc_radio_fourfm

As I mentioned upthread. It’s no surprise it’s worse

Galaxy

Blaming the children is part of the process, it is part of the abuse and I guess how the men 'justify' it to themselves.
I know it seems a small thing but I do think we should think about the language we as a society use, we see the term child prostitute used or child porn, you can't be a child prostitute, it is abuse and should be named as such. There is something about the term grooming gang that sits uncomfortably with me as well, I know it is used to explain what happens but to me it seems to minimise the crime.

There is something about the term grooming gang that sits uncomfortably with me as well...

And me Galaxy.

The very word "grooming" conjures images of cats washing themselves or women sitting in front of mirrors brushing their hair...

These men are not 'groomers' they are inadequate predatory misogynist sexual perverts preying on vulnerable girls and women. And doing what weak-minded perverts have done since the beginning of time, blaming their victims for their own inadequacy and perversion.

Utterly depressing, after everything, all the programmes, discussions, articles and nothing has changed, well only in the fact that it appears to be worse. Can the powers that be not understand the disillusionment that sets in when palpable anger at the lack of action is a trigger for civil unrest. It's almost as if the police have a continued disinterest in tackling this ongoing problem, and if they haven't responded to a child missing for 2 days, why hasn't a senior officer stepped in?

It is not hard to understand why there are vigilantes sometimes.

fancythat

It is not hard to understand why there are vigilantes sometimes.

Inevitably, that is what happens. But, it is not the answer.

When I lived in Norway, my boss told me there was a problem around the area he lived in where young girls (and sometimes boys) were out late at night, with or without their parents' approval / knowledge - not always from 'broken' homes either, just young teens exploring their adult 'freedoms' and who were inevitably at risk.

My boss (who had two daughters) together with other concerned neighbours formed a 'night watch' - but in co-operation with the local police - they just walked around the neighbourhood keeping an eye on what these teens were doing, and reporting anything 'concerning' to the police. Their very presence I think probably acted sometimes as a deterrent to would be sexual predators. Mothers and fathers walking around in a group around the housing estate (an estate built on a mountain) late at night on a rota system.

But, they were not vigilantes.

Every country has such problems.

I do think police "care", ^I simply think there aren't enough, especially enough with particular skills of working on the community/social care/mental health knowledge liaison.

Cut backs in various sorts of community care has thrown problems back on the police.

Of course I can't know and wouldn't "excuse" or even attempt to explain the lack of action on the situation described above, although it would be very valuable as a pointer to find out what other demands were made on available time and resources over those 2 days. Btw - how old was the child?

What a wonderful example, Dickens.

I think the Norwegian example sounds something worthwhile and worth consideration.

It's always amazing how varying police forces can find the man power and the time to visit people, not those inciting hatred, but the more minor issue of pissing some other person/s off, in one case "you haven't broken the law but x is upset". Soft options. I suppose we don't know what happened on the day but a missing child, is a serious matter.

We are rather in the dark regarding this case without knowing the age of the child and all the particular risk factors at play - family, friendships, whether the child frequently goes missing but returns.... as well as the levels of policing in the specialist teams who work with complex cases and have to liase with SSD in that area on that day.

I do hope we'll hear the end of the story but doubt it in this situation.