Celebrity Traitors - may the oldies rule!

I agree that it is hard to pick a favourite- so whoever wins it will be a win win for the chosen charity. I just hope it is a lesser known, local one that could really do with the money... that amount will make a massive difference to any small charity.

I find myself always wanting a traitor or traitors to win. I hope Cat and Alan will share.

Alan gave himself away tonight when asked to say I am a faithful , Jo mumbled something like " I'm not having it " I think the Traitors will lose now . What a brilliant game

I don't mind who wins now. They all deserve to get something for their charities.

David is my favourite, but that's because of A House Through Time, rather than because he's payed a better game than the others. Everyone has played well, Traitor or Faithful. It's been a great series.

Joe has had it sussed out for a good while
Joe and Cat would have been good together they are both thinkers as is David
I can’t watch Jonathon Ross in his shows he really gives me the pip

The rugby player is the most astute of all 🏉

I’d like Joe to win.

I'm feeling quite jittery and I'm not even there! 🤯

OldFrill

With just two episodes to go l think Celia may successfully instigate getting rid of Alan but l l can't see how they'll suss Cat out, very astute of her to get Alan to do the latest murder.

I think one or two of the faithful might suss Cat out if they happened to catch the look that JR shot at her when she revealed she’d written his name down.

I hope she lasts til the end - she’s my favourite.

Allira

Yes, of course.

Who's going to be first on the Jonathan Ross Show?
I admit to avoiding him for years but might have to take a peek after Traitors has ended.

Ross sat on the sofa last night shovelling lasagne into his mouth like he hadn't eaten for days and talking with his mouth full. I'm not Mrs Etiquette but it was yuk.

Yes, of course.

Who's going to be first on the Jonathan Ross Show?
I admit to avoiding him for years but might have to take a peek after Traitors has ended.

Allira

I have read that Paloma Faith is no longer friends with Alan Carr after he picked her as the first victim.

It's a Game Show, Paloma, not real life.

A feud (real or contrived) is good for grabbing headlines.

Thanks Doodledog
I'll have another read when I've had something to eat!
My brain might work better after lunch.

The final usually ends up with a few of them round a fire. If any Traitor is left standing, they take all the dosh, but the people in the final can agree to share if the Traitors are not unmasked. This means that if a Faitful agrees to share and there is a Traitor amongst them the Traitor gets the money. That has happened more than once.

Basically, they are asked if they want to share or banish, and if one person wants to banish, there is a vote and someone goes. This continues until there is a winner, or two Traitor winners, in which case they share.

Does that make sense? It's easier to watch than describe.

I have read that Paloma Faith is no longer friends with Alan Carr after he picked her as the first victim.

It's a Game Show, Paloma, not real life.

I've never watched any previous series, so am puzzled what the final episode will be like.

There is no episode next Wednesday, just on Thursday night, apparently.

There are seven contestants left. Tonight another victim will be picked but Joe has a shield.

That leaves six contestants so how is a winner picked?

I wonder whether the fact that the celebrities are likely to know one another (particularly people like Jonathan and Alan, who interview people) influenced their decisions? Getting on the JR show would be a coup for a rising star, so maybe they wanted to keep on the right side of him, which could explain why he lasted so long. Rugby Joe wouldn't care about that as much as someone like Lucy.

Or am I overthinking as usual?

I’m really enjoying it. I remember previously the traitors had to secretly recruit a faithful who then joined them as a traitor . It looks like that won’t happen in this series. I suppose if a traitor had been eliminated sooner they might have done.

With just two episodes to go l think Celia may successfully instigate getting rid of Alan but l l can't see how they'll suss Cat out, very astute of her to get Alan to do the latest murder.

It surprised me that Maths came into it. Psychology, yes, and obviously gaming. But Maths? Is it about probability or something? If a Mathematician could explain, that would be good, please?

Very interesting.
Thanks Doodledog

Thanks for that, Doodledog.
If only we could get inside others' heads to know exactly how they think things through!

I agree with the final paragraph that Joe was instrumental in persuading others, as was Celia.

I thought this article in the i was interesting.

How game theory explains Jonathan Ross’s high-risk Traitors strategy
Ross's tactics have drawn the attention of those who study psychology and a branch of maths called game theory

by Clare Wilson, Science Writer

Jonathan Ross’s punchy approach in the current series of The Celebrity Traitors might seem risky, but scientists who study strategic game playing say it is not as reckless as it seems.
His daring tactic, of murdering someone who had just accused him of being a traitor, is in fact rooted in a well-recognised strategy in game theory.

Experts in this branch of maths, which analyses decision making and strategic interactions, call Ross’s move “multi-level reasoning” and even a “suicide bluff”.

“Jonathan’s move only seems reckless if you judge it on its surface. Judged on its effect on others’ perceptions, it’s potentially optimal,” said Professor Leighton Vaughan Williams, an economist at Nottingham Business School. “Whether it continues to work depends on how many levels of reasoning the other contestants are prepared to engage in.”
For those who don’t watch Traitors, it involves a group of people spending several days in a Scottish castle, carrying out tasks to build up a pot of money. A few have been chosen to be traitors, and gather secretly at night to decide which of the others to boot from the show in a dramatic “murder”. The faithful contestants’ only defence is a daily public meeting to vote on who should be ejected as the most likely traitor.
The show, which is in its fourth UK series, is a serious business for experts in psychology, game theory, as well as game designers.

Universities using Traitors clips for teaching
“In our teaching, we use clips from The Traitors,” said Dr Clea Wright, a forensic psychologist at the University of Chester, who has a podcast about the show. “There are so many different psychological theories that are laid out there for us.”
“The show is a living laboratory for game theory,” said Professor Martin Gairing, a computer scientist at the University of Liverpool. “Every decision involves strategy, deception, and reputation building.”

Ross has been drawing attention because in episode three, he argued successfully for murdering the actress Ruth Codd, who had earlier accused him forcefully of being a traitor.
“I would be an idiot to kill Ruth. If I was a traitor, I would not have done this,” Ross told his co-conspirators that night.

The tactic has drawn interest, not just from contestants, but also from academic game theorists – whose work is used in computing, economics and even military strategy.
If the traitors selected people for murder at random, that would be termed Level 0 reasoning, said Dr Stephen Nei, an economist at the University of Exeter. Level 1 reasoning would be if Ross made the obvious move of murdering Codd because she was a threat. Level 2 reasoning would avoid Codd because she is too obvious. Ross has shifted up to Level 3 reasoning: killing her despite it implicating him.

Traitors need to work out at what level the faithful contestants are thinking, said Dr Nei. “Jonathan Ross seemingly correctly anticipated that he was talking to a Level 2 contestant.”
For future murders, the traitors should use a mix of different levels, he said. “They should not pick the obvious choice so often that they clearly reveal themselves, nor avoid the obvious option so often that they likewise reveal themselves.

“It’s similar to the idea of which way a footballer should shoot on a penalty kick; they have a stronger side – kicking left or right – which they should use more often, but not so often that the goalie knows for sure which way to dive.”

But we should not be too hard on those faithful who – at least for now – seem to have accepted Ross’s defence, said Dr Sören Henrich, a researcher in forensic psychology at Manchester Metropolitan University.
“As soon as we push past Level 1 reasoning, it gets really muggy, because our brain cannot hold all of that. In that castle, they’re not just doing that for Jonathan, they’re doing this for every other player, so it’s a lot to to keep on top of.”

Whether or not Ross survives any longer, game theory will stay relevant.
“It not only helps dissect headline-grabbing moves like Jonathan’s, but also illuminates the deep strategic currents underpinning social deduction gameplay,” said Professor Vaughan Williams, who has written about the show in his book Twisted Logic: Puzzles, Paradoxes, and Big Questions.
“Players’ choices, beliefs, and predictions form a rich tapestry of risk, reasoning, and social psychology, all of which we can examine through the lens of game theory.”

Werewolf game inspires Traitors
Some overseas versions of Traitors weave into the final episode a crucial game theory experiment called “Prisoner’s Dilemma” – also used in a different TV show Golden Balls.
In this, the final few players must opt to either share or steal the prize money. In game theory, it is seen as giving profound insights on why people often act selfishly.
In fact, the entire premise of The Traitors stems from a family of group strategy games where the goal is to “hunt the baddie”. They stem from the old parlour game Wink Murder, with later more complex forms called Mafia and Werewolf, as well as a phone app version called Among Us, set on a spaceship.

Such group games have long been popular at conferences for game theorists and coders, said Dr Douglas Brown, a researcher in game design at Falmouth University. “People have got jobs through being very good at Werewolf,” he said.
And the Traitors role of “seer” – when someone is granted temporary magical powers to discover if another person is traitor or faithful – introduced in the UK in series three, is an innovation that came from Werewolf.

In the current Celebrity Traitors series, the faithful may not need magical powers to know if Ross is engaged in an elaborate bluff, though.
Principles of psychology may come into play, including that of group thinking, our tendency to follow the crowd. If those who suspect Ross – like rugby player Joe Marler – manage to persuade one or two more to follow their lead, Ross’s time may be up. “There’s so much attention on Jonathan, I’d be surprised if he survives,” said Dr Wright.

Great episode. I just couldn't do the bridge . Johnathon was an excellent traitor .

That was a great exit
I think Cat is playing a blinder she is so cool and ordinary I can’t believe Alan hasn’t been found out