Work v Furlough

Working through the pandemic is no guarantee that anyone will keep their job.

One of my sons is on furlough. He hates it and is worried he will lose his job at enc of month. He has been so bored and offered to hang 10 new doors, put on new skirtings and paint for me. Take some holidays if you are tired. Be glad you have a job to ho back to.

I know exactly how your feel. I do accountancy from home
and have clients who are furloughed. Spent three months
helping them get their payments and answering queries and of which they think I have a hot line to HMRC which I don't, just what I hear on tv and HMRC site. All unpaid they are struggling enough as it is without me adding. then those who are not furloughed keep hurrying me along to do the normal work which until now is done late at night or weekends and finally we will have to add another years work to reach out retirement goal so will be 69 when I retire
also DH and I are both shielding due to other illnesses leaving 3 days to open post and paperwork swapping shopping , delivered. with (everyone has been so good with this) and have not been out the house for 5 months. All my hopes are on the vaccination being done by end of year. We have two weeks off at Christmas and I will just sleep.

I'm sending virtual flowers to you all along with heartfelt thanks. I think the only certainty in these times is the uncertainty and how everyone has been affected somehow. As in life in general I think the inequality of peoples experiences.
In many ways I'm luckier than most and I truly appreciate that. I'm in a high risk group and work in a care home whose attitude to staff is not at all caring. The home has very real issues with Coronavirus. According to even government guidelines I shouldnt be there. They havent paid me since March. I'm signed off with work related anxiety,somewhat grudgingly by GP. I'm working with Union. It's an endless repetitive process of evidence and processes. A game. A times I have genuinely doubted my own sanity.
I am also on a diabetes forum where people have genuine concerns about a safe return to work. One poster commented that her daughter works for a government department and that in March EVERYONE with an underlying health condition, including the obese were sent home to work on full pay until at least next year. As a former council worker I have friends who are in the same position. I dont resent them for one moment. I think the public sector has higher standards of H&S, their workers are more aware of their rights and more likely to sue.
The job I'm doing was my choice and I'm majorly over qualified for it. That said I really enjoyed it. Yes the terms and conditions are rubbish but I am fortunate to have savings which although not massive made it possible.
This morning I found myself in tears. I have endured a lot. Mainly due to my own stubbornness, I want to be treated fairly and hopefully it would result in conditions changing for those who are not so fortunate. I'm well educated and capable of research regarding risk from the virus. The brutal realisation that a career choice can either validate genuine concerns and protect you or leave you exposed to risk and for want of a better word feeling gaslighted broke me . I'm not naive, my background is degrees in Social Policy, a degree in Psychology and a PGCE. I've worked for the CAB for research and campaigns. All of this has still left me feeling increasingly helpless and as if I'm making a fuss. Today I should contact my employer with requests for individual risk assessments and other things that they have refused or ignored twice before. All communication is done via email so have evidence. It's a game. I dont want to play any more I value my self esteem and sanity too much. That's what it comes down to as an individual and employee I am worth protecting.

My DH and I have 3 employees . 1 of them has been at work full time helping me throughout . Up until 2weeks ago the other 2 have been at home on 80% wages ( savings in travel means breaking just about even ) . I’ve recently brought one back on half hours so he’s now on 90% wages for working half the hours and he’s not happy . For some reason he thinks he is being hard done by .

I feel like showing him what wages DH and I have had since March but that wouldn’t be very professional would it ?

I felt I should add my OH's experience to this thread.. He had also worked throughout the lockdown and even accepted a 15% pay cut to help ensure the company's future.
I was ill so OH had to take a day off to be my carer.
He recieved over £100 less for working 4 days (10 hr physical days and 4 hrs travelling) than his colleagues who were at home enjoying the sun all day, every day.

I am a supermarket worker also in my 60's I know exactly how you feel My OH is also a supermarket worker we are not only physically tired we are fed up of being abused, shouted at because people have to queue and the things they want to buy are not in stock. Our furloughed workers are just returning to work boasting that they have had 3 months off with pay what did we get nothing I would love some time off with pay to recover but it's not going to happen.

It has to be faced that the Covid-19 emergency has been, and still is, an unprecedented situation where no one can predict what long term effects it will have on the working population of Britain.

Our Business being involved in workplace safety has been fully operational and very busy throughout the crisis. We did have eight members of the admin staff working from home at the start of the lockdown, but they were brought back into the office to work within two weeks and all seemed very glad to be once more back in that environment whatever the new restrictions.

All others have worked through the crisis and in that have visited many employers workplaces very often assisting in setting up safe working conditions and practices.

No one has complained that they have had to work while others remained at home while being paid, for they have been thankful to have had plenty of continuously secure ongoing work that will also see them well into the future, or as far as can be seen in this situation.

Dear Fflaurie
Thank you so much for doing the job that you do and persevering through these difficult times. Love and kisses to you.
I used to work at Sainsburys so I know how tiring and physically painful it can be.
We are so grateful to Sainsburys for delivering our groceries each week and always thank the lady or gentleman albeit at a distance.
We're in our seventies and my husband has been diabetes so insists on being very careful.
We have effectively been in lock down for the last 18 months as my mother in law, who lived with us, was so frail that we couldn't leave her for more than a few minutes. She died in April but alas our lives haven't changed that much. Just different worries.

I think there are two separate issues here. The first is about pension age, and I agree with those who feel that the current situation is very unfair, both on the young who could have the jobs of older people who want to retire, and on women who expected to retire at 60 after paying NI for decades.

The second issue is that of furlough/working. Those who are furloughed are not able to work, so I can't see any reason to castigate them for doing whatever they are doing instead. What do people want them to do?

Those who are working from home are probably as fed up as those going in to work. It is not easy to work when surrounded by home distractions. Not all houses are set up for working (why would they be?) and having other people around can make things really difficult. I do bits of consultancy (from home just now). Just having to keep everything Zoom-ready, and arrange other commitments around work-based appointments is often difficult, and I only do a few hours a week. Full-time work from home must be incredibly intrusive and isolating. In any case, as home-workers are still doing what they are being paid for, I don't understand the resentment there either.

Those going in to work are also doing what they are paid for. I can understand that it must be stressful coping with travel and dealing with the public (who may or may not be good at complying with guidance), and sympathise with that; but I don't think it is reasonable to expect to get a paid holiday just because other people's situations mean that they are not going in to their workplaces.

I could equally ask for backdated pay because I never got paid time off work outside of my holiday entitlement when at work, on the grounds that it is 'not fair' that people are getting it now. Obviously it would be considered an unreasonable request, but the logic is the same. I would have loved 'battery recharge' time during my last years at work, but didn't get them. Most people don't, although it would be great if we could build that into a new retirement deal.

I realise that this all sounds harsh, but my DIL has also worked throughout the crisis as a key worker in retail, and is likely to lose her job soon. She and my son have a new mortgage. My sister has been furloughed, but has worked in her own time to keep the company (a charity) going. She has been on 80% of her salary and used her own money for paper/copying/broadband etc, but believes in the cause, so has done it. When furlough ends she is also facing redundancy unless a massive donation comes forward (unlikely).

Meanwhile, my friend's daughter works in a well-known chemist, and has done nothing but moan from the start, complaining that others were sitting in their gardens whilst she was at work, and generally acting as though she were the only person in the country doing the job for which she is getting paid. I'm sure that she will soon be complaining that she is subsidising people claiming benefits when the redundancies kick in for those who were furloughed.

These are difficult times for everyone, and it is not a competition for who is getting the worst deal.

Same story here OP. I have this week off and although the store I work in is really lovely, I don't think I've ever been more relieved to have a week at home.

Fflaurie as a fellow key worker who has just like you worked all through (in a care home) I understand the weariness. I count my blessings in having a job but must admit that I was envious of my DC who were furloughed and still live at home with me. As a fellow key worker I thank you for your efforts.

Furlough shaming seems to be the new benefit bashing, we must take care that we do not blame the wrong people for the position that we find ourselves in. Many people are anxious about losing their jobs when furlough ends, and those that are stupid enough to boast about being paid to do nothing are probably stupid enough to not have realised that they may not have a job by Christmas. Well done to you, and to everyone who has worked through these difficult times, we all appreciate your efforts, but please do not blame the rest of us for the raising of the pension age or the fact that you were not furloughed. This is not the time to be divided, we all need to support each other.

When I was still working in my 60s I was utterly exhausted and felt quite ill so I do sympathise. It does seem mad that so many younger people are out of work but older people with health issues have to work so hard.

One DS worked from home during the start and height of the pandemic in a senior role within the travel industry so very pressured given the circumstances. He has now been made redundant . Second DS has been furloughed throughout, lives alone and is lonely and depressed. He sees us quite regularly (if only to get a hearty meal!) and talks non stop as he’s no one else to talk to - his mates are all going to the pub which he’s refused to do. Redundancies at his firm are now being looked at and he’s worried for the future. I do feel for the OP and thank her for her hard work throughout these unprecedented times but please don’t think all furloughed workers are living the high life, some are but many are not.

Many older persons work well past retirement age simply due to skill shortages. Such people are requested to stay on due to problems finding replacements for them and their skulls. I am in the office now and still working at the age of seventy-seven due in the main to the above situation.

I have always loved the work we carry out in the company and therefore do not mind working on. However, we could have grown the business much larger in the past five years had there been the people available with the skills we required.

As a business, we invest a large amount in training, but to bring any person to the highest qualification in the sector we work in can take several years and a great deal of expenditure.

The above is a major problem in many industries and professions, and until the government acknowledges Britain has major skill shortages the situation will not improve.

Heavy Investment in adult education and skills training is required for the forgoing shortage to be resolved. Then, a great many older persons would be retiring at the age they should be retiring at.

SueEH

I’m 59 and have been furloughed from one of my part time jobs and working from home (now returned) for my other job.
I love the job I returned to and hate the one I’m furloughed from. We haven’t heard when we will be back but maybe August.
I’m really dreading going back. My parents (in their 90s) live 100 miles from me and are needing more and more help so I’ve been down there every other weekend since we’ve been able to bubble.
I wondered at the beginning of all this why on earth couldn’t the women’s pension age be returned to 60 (or within a couple of years) because there are likely to be thousands of women made redundant with little realistic prospect of a new job and surely it would be cheaper to pay their pensions than gave to support them for years on benefits. But I haven’t found anyone to listen yet!

I didn't mean returning to the old discriminatory pension ages, I meant the same pension age for men and women, SueEH, perhaps 63 or 64 - but not compulsory if some wished to carry on working.

This would start to release jobs for younger people and give them some hope.

Yes, I realise that pensions are the largest cost of the benefits system, but we're all going to have to pay more tax at some point to fund these schemes anyway.

growstuff

Callistemon

I said to DH yesterday that I really do think they should lower State Pension age back down again to 65 (at least) this releasing jobs for younger people.

There may be fewer jobs around in the future so why not pay older people their pensions instead of paying younger people who may not be able to get a job.

I'm sorry you feel so tired and down but I am not surprised. Well done for helping keep the country going at a difficult time and yes, you do deserve a break.
???

It won't be reduced back to 65. There are already 65 year olds who are having to wait, so there would need to be backpaid pensions. The argument about releasing jobs isn't valid because that time has already gone.

PS. I wish people would stop exaggerating. The current maximum state pension age for anybody is currently 67.

I still think it is a valid idea.

Yes, they could back pay pensions and, at the same time, increase the pensions of those who are the old rate, after making adjustments for the extra years they received the state pension.
These pensioners will be worse off in the long term.
It's a mish-mash and a mess.

I feel sorry for those who have been furloughed and subsequently may lose their jobs and for young people who may never get a job.
It seems ridiculous when many older people are weary and want to retire but cannot.

I too wish I could retire at 60,or even 65. I think a lot depends on the type of work you do as well. A well paid office job such as lawyer or accountant maybe I wouldnt mind,that said waiting for a state pension probably wouldn't be an issue! I've worked mainly in social care in both the public and private sector. I cared full time for my father for a few years. I then had a years paid post doing Research and Campaigns and desk based. It was quite an eye opener as regards to being physically tired. When that ended I found a job in care that was ideal as a support worker where do minimum care but spend quality time with residents. It involved 12 hour shifts and rather arduous working pattern 48 hours one week then 8 days off. On the whole it was going ok,working with residents enjoyable if at times mentally stressful. Kept the wolves from the door and no responsibility for supervising/managing staff. That's all been thrown up in air due to virus. I'm high risk and it's not a good environment. Certainly not worth risking serious illness. Not sure what the future holds. I do know a lot of women my age cope less well than with the physical rigours of a 12 hour shift with non stop hoisting,rolling of people,making beds etc. Due to low staff numbers it's pretty full on. Certainly after being off due to virus I'm aware I've had enough!

I totally understand where fflaurie is coming from.

I do feel envious of those who have been furloughed and have been able to enjoy their gardens, especially during the wonderful weather during the early part of lockdown, and those who have been posting on social media showing all the lovely redecorations of their homes, whilst I and my husband are still working our full hours. I have been working more hours than normal as we have had a huge increase in work.

But I also am very grateful that we both do have our full pay, and have been financially better off, as my husband isn't spending £250 a month on petrol, for a start. My commuting costs were minimal as I mostly cycled to work, but I have noticed how much I did fritter away whilst working, as my bank account is looking very much healthier these days.

My husband has been working from home since February and has been told there is no prospect of returning to the office until October at the earliest.

I was going into the office until the official lockdown was announced, and we've been told we won't be going back until September at the very earliest

I am quite happy working from home, epecially when I "leave for work" 30 seconds before I have to start, and am "home from work" 25 second after I finish (it's quicker after work as the commute is downhill)

I could have retired at 60 but chose to work until 64 because I enjoyed teaching and was able to work part time - 60%.

I don't think I would have had the stamina to carry on until I was 67. My knees wouldn't have coped with all the stairs for a start. Lowering the retirement age would not only free up jobs but there will be fewer people in their late sixties becoming ill due to exhaustion and physical ailments.

Fflaurie you sound really burned out and in need of some annual leave (and some virtual hugs) as others have said. The pandemic has taken its toll on everyone, young and old, fit and not so fit. It's easy to assume that everyone else is having a great time while you are plodding on doing the same job you were doing before, albeit in a changed way. The other day, I stopped to chat to a neighbour who works for the school nursing service. She commented how lucky my eldest daughter is (a primary school teacher) as apparently "teachers have had it easy and haven't had to worry about childcare during lockdown". I was seething! My DD. has never had to work so hard, combining full time work from home as she is in a Covid vulnerable category with homeschooling her own three primary age children. She and my SIL have done an absolutely brilliant job and their children have thrived but it has been down to sheer hard graft.

I believe IF it suited the govt to do so they would undertake major legislation. I am 60 and have 6 years to wait till I retire meantime I am feeling ragged working pt ,helping with elderly parents and childcare for working AC. I would love to be offered the choice of being able to claim state pension at 60.

Grandad1943

It would necessitate a major change of legislation for the pension age to be reduced once more to sixty or sixty-five.

That reduction would also have to be applied to both men and women as I believe the changes to pension provision were, I believe, brought forward as part of the Equality Act 2010.

I stand to be corrected on pension provision being part of the Equality Act if others have better awareness and links.

I agree it would necessitate a change of legislation to
change the state pension age Grandad1943 but desperate times call for desperate measures.

With unemployment set to rise rapidly it may be the only way to get young people back into jobs and it would make absolute sense. There will always be people who would seek to work beyond pension age either because they love their job or they need/want the extra money which would be fine.

My DD has worked throughout the pandemic as a front line NHS worker, sometimes having to wear full PPE, whereas my DS is only entitled to working credit which just covers his rent. My DD said she would rather be doing what she is, as she would be totally stressed not having enough money to live on. Not everybody who is staying home has the luxury of 80% of their wages. My DS at least gets something, some get nothing at all.