Gransnet forums

Work/volunteering

Work wants to replace me with younger person

(123 Posts)
Laughterlines Tue 09-Feb-21 11:57:29

I have worked for the same company for 25 years. I am good at my job. I have a daily assignment which I carry out alone. I don’t have to go into the office and do not have social contacts with other employees.

Work have engaged a much younger person who will earn less and fits the positive discrimination guidelines who I believe is a replacement for me.

Work have asked me to attend a zoom meeting where they have found texts going back several years and accused me of bullying behaviour. I have not been aware of deliberately bullying somebody. I feel this is a trumped up excuse to get rid of me, save money, and comply with current employment requirements .

Last year I had some issues and needed to see a counsellor and asked in a text for time off to attend the appointment. This was refused as too busy.

I have always worked unpaid overtime and on days off but this is not being recognised. I am good at my job.

I am early fifties so couldn’t draw my pension yet.

Any idea how I should defend myself. I am usually non confrontational.

Lolee Wed 10-Feb-21 10:28:42

As a natural course of events, youngsters are going to replace us oldies at work, currency as we know it is going to be replaced by crypto currency, and AI will replace workers. It's called progression and we can't escape it. The scary thing is that it's all happening quicker than envisioned.

Welcome to our brave new world.

Justanotherwannabe Wed 10-Feb-21 10:38:48

Nellie098,
Emails are better because they have date and time, and the text can be used as evidence should you so wish (lets hope it doesn't come to that!)
It also means they cannot say they haven't received it!
Oh, and join a union!

Best of luck, a worrying and very miserable position to be in.

Mrsmilner20 Wed 10-Feb-21 10:39:26

Laughterlines
Sorry to hear all this - I went through similar some years ago
Find yourself an Employment Lawyer- I think you can get some free advice - Worked for me!!!

EMMYPEMMY Wed 10-Feb-21 10:48:10

Bullying Bastards
The workplace today is Shit
Do not go through it
Resign and find another job
Do not lose a nights sleep over this silliness they call the workplace just move on let them have their way. They will get it anyway . You will be better respected elsewhere... Its a conspiracy to get you out...
Breathe, relax , do the best thing for you and your Health and wellbeing, LET IT GO LET IT GO....Not worse the hassles or the aggravation.....They win either way.....

jenpax Wed 10-Feb-21 10:49:30

Give Citizens Advice a call and contact ACAS

Carooline Wed 10-Feb-21 10:53:18

Laughterlines could not be made redundant & replaced as redundant means the role no longer exists. The role would have to be changed considerably before it could be offered to someone else or they could be facing charges of unfair dismissal, the vast majority of people who go for that do actually win their case.

timetogo2016 Wed 10-Feb-21 10:56:27

I thought the vwey same MommaP.

Riggie Wed 10-Feb-21 10:56:42

So I don't understand how they have texts unless they were on a work phone or the recipient has shown them to someone.

And the trouble with texts is that they are often brief. So a short comment taken by itself, out of context, may appear very differently to the same text as part of a longer conversation.
Get expert advice

As for you other comments, yes its possible that the new lerson is there because they are good at the job and maybe your skills are not as up to date as you think. Also why the unpaid overtime? Is it beause therenis extra work and all hands are needed, or is it because you cant do your allocated work quickly enough?

Mildmanneredgran Wed 10-Feb-21 10:58:22

Hi, HR professional here. The first step would be to ask under what process the Zoom call is taking place (ie is it a disciplinary?) and ask for the relevant policy. Ask what the agenda is going to be and what material is going to be produced, so that the meeting can be as effective as possible. Confirm you will be accompanied by a colleague, whether or not it's a disciplinary, for support. Keep lots of notes! Good luck.

janipans Wed 10-Feb-21 10:59:08

The definition of bullying is -
"the use of force, coercion, hurtful teasing or threat, to abuse, aggressively dominate or intimidate. The behavior is often repeated and habitual. One essential prerequisite is the perception (by the bully or by others) of an imbalance of physical or social power"

This is not the same as being assertive in order to get a job done quickly and effectively!

"Being assertive means being able to stand up for your own or other people's rights in a calm and positive way, without being either aggressive, or passively accepting 'wrong'. Assertive individuals are able to get their point across without upsetting others, or becoming upset themselves".

The Company can employ another person of they wish to - that is nothing to do with you - but they cannot dismiss you unfairly, without suffering consequences (usually financial), so they must feel they have a case if this is really on the cards.

As you are a long time employee, I find it odd that they haven't chatted to you about anything "off the record" rather than going down what sounds like an officious route from the outset. This makes me wonder what sort of relationship you really have with your manager etc.

The trouble is that even if you are right and they are wrong, your trust in them will have diminished so either way I'm afraid you might want to leave - but at least if you play your cards right, you might have some compensation to tide you over until you find a new job.

Good luck!

Jillybird Wed 10-Feb-21 11:01:49

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Startingover61 Wed 10-Feb-21 11:07:26

I haven’t read all the posts yet but, as a union rep before I retired, you would be within your rights to ask a colleague to attend as support (if you haven’t got a union rep) and ask for a list of other attendees to be put in writing and emailed to you a few days in advance of the Zoom meeting. You should also take notes and perhaps ask your colleague/union rep to do so as well. No one should access your emails without your permission, so ask how this was done and ask for a copy of the emails in which you allegedly bullied someone. The ACAS website should have plenty of advice. I don’t think you should attend any meeting alone, Zoom or otherwise.

DawnL Wed 10-Feb-21 11:10:36

I haven't read all the msgs, but will.

Are you in a union? If so this could be a case of age discrimination and they could help you.

crazygranny Wed 10-Feb-21 11:11:00

Waste no time. Make an appointment to see an employment solicitor.

icanhandthemback Wed 10-Feb-21 11:13:17

Whatever you do, make sure you keep records of everything you do and respond in a timely fashion. My SIL lost a case of unfair dismissal against his company who had accused him of stealing when he actually had permission from his line manager who was too lily livered to stand up for him. Unfortunately, although the tribunal chair said he thought that my SIL had been treated in a disgusting manner, he had been 24 hours late with his application so the case was dismissed.
ACAS were very helpful but I was shocked about how alone you are in the early stages. Maybe as the meeting is on Zoom, you can ask for it to be recorded. You need to be careful that you don't make allegations of positive discrimination which will be seen to be racist. Ask for copies of the texts before the meeting as well so you are best able to defend yourself. Check with ACAS what you are entitled to ask for. Definitely find a way to have a supportive colleague or friend to give you support. And I hate to say this, with colleagues, beware who you trust. They have a vested interest in keeping their jobs and it would take someone very loyal to you to risk a job to support you. We learned the hard way!

Tonucha Wed 10-Feb-21 11:14:11

I think you should be requesting a list of the points that are going to be covered at the meeting and time to study them. This will give you time to think rationally about them and prepare the answers.
Imagine that this is a trial. The two lawyers need to be given the evidence and the time to analyse it.
Make sure you have someone with you, taking notes and acting as witness. Invest in a small tape recorder; INFORM the other party that you have someone with you and that will be taping the interview. You do not have to be aggressive about it. Simply state that the meeting is very important and you feel that the measures you have taken are appropriate.
Things are going to get so unpleasant, that you should start looking for another job ANYWAY.
Remain professional and detached, calm and rational. Do NOT become emotional or you will lose the skirmish. This is a battle. Prepare to win, even if you lose the job. Your future employer might want to talk to your current employer and you do not want to leave any evidence that can be used against you.

Mildmanneredgran Wed 10-Feb-21 11:14:23

And to add to my previous post, don't feel pushed into answering any questions. Just make a note of the question in your notebook and say you will get back to them.

jenpax Wed 10-Feb-21 11:16:25

As I said before call citizens Advice and ACAS. Cit A may have an employment specialist in the office and in any event can refer you to the Bar Bro Bono unit if needed, cheaper than a private employment lawyer as others have recommended

jenpax Wed 10-Feb-21 11:16:49

Bar pro bono!

Lazypaws Wed 10-Feb-21 11:23:57

Speak to your HR department and if they can't help, take them to a tribunal. It doesn't cost anything. I worked for English Heritage in London and I was 'sacked' while I was off sick. I took them to a tribunal and won. A lot of companies are doing this now. Loyalty counts for nothing. If you leave of your own free will, you won't be entitled to financial help (it used to be DHSS money - I don't know what it's called now - so hang on in there and write everything down, keep copies of every text, email, letter - everything. Otherwise it's your word against theirs. If they are looking for a reason to get rid of you, don't play their game.

MadeInYorkshire Wed 10-Feb-21 11:25:19

Personally I think that if your 'gut' is telling you this is what's happening, you may well be right.

Call ACAS and look at their website, and if this meeting comes up too soon for you, ask it to be postponed until you are ready - keep files and names and dates and emails, sounds dodgy to me and making you redundant would no doubt cost them too much money!

If it is to do with bullying years ago, then as they did nothing at the time and things have been fine since, then pfft, they can do one!

Lazypaws Wed 10-Feb-21 11:26:04

Also, I remember from a dispute I had with a colleague that when they ask you a question, give it back to them. For example, she said to me 'So Pauline, what are we going to do about this situation we find ourselves in?' I said, 'So Yvonne, what do you want to do about this situation we find ourselves in?'
That way, they HAVE to tell you what they want and you're not giving them any ammunition to shoot you.

Milo27 Wed 10-Feb-21 11:27:01

Join a Union , quick. I have a very driven young manager who puts unreasonable demands on me , I am 60 in April and I am currently off with stress and anxiety. I think she wants to bring in a friend of hers! It's not only me who is unhappy with how she treats us. If there is any disciplinary then the Union rep will be with you and support you , good luck x

tictacnana Wed 10-Feb-21 11:32:39

My daughter was accused of bullying. Luckily, she kept very careful records of all communications. Her union backed her. Turned out that the bullying behaviour were e-mails and texts giving dates of meetings ( which the accuser didn’t want to attend) and a couple of texts inviting her to department nights out. However, the whole process was very stressful and she was glad of union support and that of friends/ colleagues who backed her up. The accuser had to move into a different office and is repeating the process with some other poor sod !!I wish you good luck and send a hug.

Delene100 Wed 10-Feb-21 11:37:52

Please telephone Acas for free legal advice as they are experts in employment law.