Colleague taking advantage

I cannot imagine the vut and his friwnd spend ages discussing you, it is proba ly if not. Work related the sirt of chat that colleagues have with each ithdr and uf in English it eould ve rude to listen in on deliberately
Why not learn a few phrases in their language snd surprise them y saying good morning or excuse me ir would you mind letting me get my file please. It might be interesting to see how they react, espe ially if you ask them to teach you a bit more

AliceS

If it was a one to one for a business meeting I'd say fair enough, or if it was for a conference okay too, but if it was social chat excluding the third person in a conversation in a public facing role (making it non-exclusive in the workplace) I would have a form to put in a grievance due to racial discrimination. I think that is totally rude and disrespectful - it's essential to communicate as a group regarding business operations. So, someone can run you down and you wouldn't understand? I don't think that's okay. It's okay if the colleague had to communicate with a visitor from overseas. I don't think someone should be praying in a shared workstation on a front desk when I need the same shared space to close up before the end of my shift and need to get to key cabinets ! He knows I finish earlier than him. My colleague has a lot of space in the back office to himself and I've totally respected his right to have extra time to pray outside the building. Sometimes he's had 45 minutes to pray plus 1 hour lunch plus another 20 minutes for shopping. I probably wouldn't mind so much if there were more team members. As mentioned before I will continue with my work but I will also take longer breaks as the rules just don't apply to one person in a team of two.

You’re a woman and he’s a man. He’s a sexist CF and is treating you like a second class citizen. But ignore, ignore and don’t give him the time of day (as long as you aren’t covering any of his jobs). He’s a work colleague not a friend.

I don't understand why the third colleague is there chatting so much. I didn't get that the third man was actually working, but rather stopping in. I wouldn't feel comfortable in that situation either. I get the idea that there's a customer service counter that both are responsible for, but he seems unavailable a lot of the time. I once worked with a woman who was constantly hiding. We were in retail work, supposed to be waiting on customers and she was never around. I always found her on the other side of a circle rack sort of bending down or in dressing rooms. I once found her squished into a very small corner as if she were playing hide and seek. Don't know if she was trying to find a place to pray because she would never speak to me. I will say I think it's rude to talk often in a foreign language when a co-worker is present. It's rude and seems sort of sneaky. Also, I find it offensive that they allow prayer time for some, but not for others. As to why the OP has complimented him, I rather think she knows that if she didn't, everything would be her fault, and everything would land in her lap. Seems like a lot of virtue signaling on this thread.

Hi everyone
I am pleased to say that everything has been resolved amicably. I have known him for 2 years. I am Hindu. He and I always have friendly chats. My point was to find a private space as we have to share space and I need to lock up and get access as the help desk manager. Just to be clear we have never told each other what to do. I said I would look into a private room and he said thanks so much. He also apologised for being ignorant at the front desk in another language (I didn't bring it up).

He is being paid to put so many hours in working. If he is not doing this then he is breaking his contract. If he is taking time out to pray then he should come in earlier or stay later to make up that time.

How would you feel if you went to a meeting or a party and they all spoke together in their own language whatever it was, and you stood there like a lemon? Isn’t it just rude and bad manners not to talk in a language everyone can understand. That’s not racist to wish to understand what is being said.

This is not a party or a work meeting though. Its two friends having a private conversation. It might not be racist to want to know what is being said, but its certainly rude and nosy to expect to listen in on others conversations

You say you were in a grumpy mood when you posted, but honestly I can't understand your issue at all, even allowing for your bad mood!
The guy works for a different employer for a start, so his terms of employment re breaks may be quite different from yours.
If he and his mate chat in their own language, so what? Maybe they're talking about football, cars, who knows what, but as long as they don't appear to be talking ABOUT YOU, or acting in an offensive manner, then why would it bother you? No different to any 2 guys nattering on to each other! Why would you need to feel excluded? If a female pal of yours dropped by would you feel obliged to include your colleague in your conversation?
As for his prayer breaks, maybe in the other spaces he isn't able to face the right way, and perhaps you could get your stuff together 5 minutes early so you don't interrupt his important act of faith. As for telling him to pray outside - seriously?
I do hope you're feeling less grumpy and more tolerant now, because quite honestly your original post just dounds petty and silly - sorry if you were expecting someone to agree with you!

You can tell when two people are discussing you in a different language, its uncomfortable and a bit intimidating as well as rude. I'm surprised so many of you can't see this.
The praying is a puzzle though. Does he always pick the same bit of floor for his prayers? Does he have to pray facing East and would this 'back room' give him the space he needs for this?
The fact that he's praying in public and in front of you does sound as though he's intruding into your space and promoting his religion rather aggressively and I can see that could be uncomfortable for you. Its not necessary and I think he's being very rude and selfish. Its all a bit passive/aggressive.
Unfortunately there's not a thing you can do about it without sounding racist, apart from asking him nicely to use this back room to pray.
If I were you I'd be quietly looking for another job.

Sorry, do etching should be something.
Houst is HOIST.
I seriously wonder just what polices the script!!!! Their correction is awful.

If you feel so strongly he's spying, set him up, leave do etching out that is totally bogus but appears genuine, see where that leads,. Confrontation won't get you anywhere I suspect, so houst him with his own petard.

Personally I don't think anti racism is about pretending there's never any discomfort, it's about getting to understand the self and the other person.

I agree Jess20.

What a lot of nasty and judgemental people you are. Sorry Alice for having such harsh responses.

Imagine, if you can, that you are a single older female in a close working environment with two men who are talking in another language that you don’t understand. I would think that she is feeling physically and emotionally vulnerable. She doesn’t know one of the men at all and the other only a little. They could be saying all kinds of things and she wouldn’t know. She cannot form a better relationship with them because they are not talking to her or including her.

How would you feel if you went to a meeting or a party and they all spoke together in their own language whatever it was, and you stood there like a lemon? Isn’t it just rude and bad manners not to talk in a language everyone can understand. That’s not racist to wish to understand what is being said.

As for the praying, why do it somewhere that you know it interferes with the running of the business? Wouldn’t you find somewhere quiet for your devotions?

If this was happening in amongst a workforce of fifty people for example then it wouldn’t matter so much, but when there’s only three of you it’s important.

I must admit (on a ship that my DH works) my husband talks in his native language to colleagues as it is quicker to communicate things. But if there other non-Dutch colleagues are around, they will speak in English.

Indonesian and Phillipino crew will sometimes talk among themselves in their own language too - because it is quicker to convey information to each other.

But that is only an observation.

At home, DH's family will speak Dutch and apologise - saying that it is quicker and easier to communicate important information (more so about DH's mum's heath situation, etc.) and then DH will give me a brief rundown later.

I hope you can work around things and come to some sort of compromise that will make you feel a bit better about the situation. Good luck!

I think it's OK to feel discomfort and then process that feeling, it's how we learn. OP just expressed her thoughts and better to do so than build resentment and act without conscious self awareness. Personally I don't think anti racism is about pretending there's never any discomfort, it's about getting to understand the self and the other person.

it's not the files/praying issue that most clearly suggests racism.
it's the attitude of describing people muttering in another language and objecting to it.

I disagree that its "tacit racism" on the part of OP. She needs to get to certain files/workspace while the other person is praying then she has to have a frank conversation with him. In the situation I would be open and tell him that while I appreciate his need to follow his religion it would be more appropriate for him to pray in the private back room, where his activities are not impeding her work. I would also stress that he is less likely to be disturbed there by either her or members of the public/other workers arriving. Praying is usually a private activity.

I suspect that you expected this forum to agree with your tacit racism and are backtracking furiously. It's not a good look.

Legally he’ll be allowed to pray - you do realise he isn’t skiving, it’s just that there are certain times of day that this needs to happen?

And as for your complaint that two people “muttering” in their native language is racist… Feel free to complain to your boss, I suspect I know what the outcome will be and it won’t be one you like.

Surely you didn’t expect your security colleague to do your job though?

You work two different jobs.

I’m genuinely struggling to understand your issue.

The only issue I could understand is if their chatting were distracting you. But even that doesn’t matter which language they use

Why are you talking him up so much if you dislike the job he’s doing?

Thanks everyone. I actually think he's a nice guy. We have good chats, and there's been no altercations. I've also spoken well to managers about him and his security company. I'd like it to stay that way. I will treat tomorrow as a fresh day. Today I had been given six months worth of statistics to type up by my managers whilst my colleague was praying behind the desk so felt grumpy towards the end when you are closely working together and someone keeps disappearing! Perhaps I can politely come to a compromise tomorrow saying that he can have private space in the back office and can put a sign at the back office to prevent anyone from cutting through that way I can also get professional access to material behind the desk without bumping into each other. I do not want to take this to a higher level. I do appreciate all the comments and understand that this is only said to prevent further issues occurring. Many thanks,

I know you aren't liking the advice you are getting but it could save you from getting yourself in a bad situation.

His praying does not need mentioning. His religion obviously calls for prayer at certain times. That is why it is happening when you want to leave.

Talking in his own language doesn't need mentioning. Whatever language they spoke in may not include you anyway.

Of you mention either you will be pulled up as discriminating.

If his scheduled breaks are in fact longer than they should be, which you would need to be absolutely sure of because his hours are longer and you dont know how much unpaid break he gets, then you are entitled to complain...

But ask yourself, is his job being done and do you feel safe? If he is security then that is what matters and that would be your valid reason.

As for taking longer breaks yourself... as others have said, your job is your responsibility and you should not be lowering your standards. Imagine if everyone thought that way! Nightmare scenario.

I agree with GagaJo, you need to set your own standards and ignore what other people are doing. Be proud that you are hard working, meeting deadlines and being appropriate without worrying about what someone else is or is not doing.

As I understand, you are not employed by the same company so the breaks he takes is nothing to do with you, I assume you have your own contract which stipulates working hours, breaks etc so just keep to those and try not to get annoyed by his attitude. It’s quite possible that eventually his supervisor will find out that he is slacking and get involved.

It’s not unreasonable though to have a chat with him about his behaviour when you are trying to pack up ready to leave. Could you ask him to vacate the area to give you uninterrupted access to the files etc if it’s important for you? I find it difficult to think that he would want to pray in a public area ie at the front desk where he could be interrupted by members of the public or other employees, devotion is a private matter and it sounds like he has a dedicated prayer area or at least a more private space. I think I would just get on with the end tasks whatever he is doing, politely asking him to move to allow access and then leave promptly.

The language being spoken with his friend is more difficult, it’s not unreasonable for friends to talk to each other in their first language even though you find it rude. I think you could be accused of discrimination if you complained so you need to reflect on any possible consequences. Is there someone you could talk to about the issue like your manager or the HR team?

I think you need to have your own standard of work. Wherever you work, regardless of your colleagues. You do your personal best at work. Not for acclaim or reward, but just because it's your standard.

There will also always be times at work where you don't agree with what others do, or even where you don't like your colleagues/boss. Remain polite at all times. Avoid being with them too much (not possible here I can see). Don't let others get you to deviate from you doing your best.

You can't really go wrong with this. If you ensure you're good at your job, even those that actively dislike you can do too much about it. Cover your back to keep your job.

Taking longer breaks could get you in trouble. It'll be no excuse to say you're copying your colleague.

The chatting is none of your business.

You could ask him, when he's not actually praying, to leave the front space clear at X time, when you are leaving.

Other than that, take no notice of what he does if it doesn't affect you.

If it was a one to one for a business meeting I'd say fair enough, or if it was for a conference okay too, but if it was social chat excluding the third person in a conversation in a public facing role (making it non-exclusive in the workplace) I would have a form to put in a grievance due to racial discrimination. I think that is totally rude and disrespectful - it's essential to communicate as a group regarding business operations. So, someone can run you down and you wouldn't understand? I don't think that's okay. It's okay if the colleague had to communicate with a visitor from overseas. I don't think someone should be praying in a shared workstation on a front desk when I need the same shared space to close up before the end of my shift and need to get to key cabinets ! He knows I finish earlier than him. My colleague has a lot of space in the back office to himself and I've totally respected his right to have extra time to pray outside the building. Sometimes he's had 45 minutes to pray plus 1 hour lunch plus another 20 minutes for shopping. I probably wouldn't mind so much if there were more team members. As mentioned before I will continue with my work but I will also take longer breaks as the rules just don't apply to one person in a team of two.