Barmy I think people are saying that they have no problem with refugees from Syria its those who just fancy moving to Europe/UK that we're more suspicious of.

Yes I fully agree but if you read my first comment again you will see that I Ihave no problem with that and fully support refugees who come here from the war torn areas of the middle east, what I don't agree with is grannypipers latest comment. This time I have put my glasses on so hopefully no typos!

Yes I get your point. However, I thought that the plan to provide safe places near their own countries was more practical as it could allow the people to return to their own countries eventually. I know these camps are not wonderful but neither is what's theoretically available over here. Additionally in the refugee camps people don't have to learn a whole new language and different cultural norms. None of this is ideal. Ideally these stupid men should stop their ridiculous tribal infighting!

I agree with Jane10. And I have no issue with adult refugees just people pretending to be children. They are preventing actual children from being helped.

Of course things are far from perfect for some of our own people but, generally speaking, they can have a roof over their heads, food in their stomach, their children get educated and hospitals will treat them free, despite the NHS having its own problems. Even more important they have no need to fear for their lives.

It would be unrealistic to believe that not one potential refugee coming here was a possible terrorist but 99.99% of them are genuine people in need. Many of the adults are skilled and want to work and some already have some English. To only allow children access to the UK serves to break up families at a time when the children have the greatest need of their parents or other adults from their country.

England has a good record of welcoming refugees, not only the Jews but the Huguenots from France. These people, as well as those economic refugees who have come more recently from Europe, have enriched our country and paid their taxes.

If we need to restrict numbers, new economic migrants from the EU may be escaping poverty but not danger and could be deterred. Note I said NEW economic migrants, not those who are already here and part and parcel of the community.

Unfortunately nothing will change the minds of those who think differently. I also see a degree of racism from those who are prepared to accept economic migrants from the EU but not genuine refugees from countries such as Syria.

Barmyoldbat asks "what would you do if it was your family in the war zones?" Well if I was one of these fit young men I hope I wouldn't abandon them - my mother, wife, sisters & daughters - to whatever dreadful fate may befall them. All the news items I have seen and the statistics I have read show that virtually all of these refugees are male - my question is "why have they deserted their families and their countries?"

Aslemma I think people are making a distinction between genuine refugees fleeing war zones and economic migrants from some countries outside the EU who may have been mixing with the genuine refugees in such camps as the Jungle, and 'losing' their papers.

That is what worries people - that those who genuinely need our help may not be helped because the authorities seem to be finding it difficult to establish who needs help and who has jumped on the bandwagon of the migrant/refugee crisis.
And being fit and able, some of these people seem to have got themselves to the front of the queue and the vulnerable and children left behind.
There does not seem to be an ethos of 'women and children - and injured - first'.

As far as I can tell on this thread it's nothing to do with race.

Its certainly not intended to be racist on my part.

I agree that the thread wasn't about race when it started and ostensibly still isn't, but I can't help noticing how many are more prepared to have economic migrants from the EU, who are mainly white and, at least nominally, Christian, Jewish or even atheist, rather than those from further afield, many of whom are Moslems.

I do agree that those who come here from other cultures or religions should accept our way of life. They should be free to follow their own moral codes in their own lives, unless it is against our laws, but should not try to impose it on others.

Aslemma I totally agree with your comment and as for living in a refugee camp, well short term yes but not long term and certainly not like the ones the Australia. Tribal fighting will eventually die out as people are educated and mix and learn from other .societies but it all takes time. As for staying and fighting, well you are not much good to your family when you are killed, who will provide for them, the children will they will leave the school and education and start working for a pittance. This just keeps the cycle going of rearing uneducated people and keeping the old ways going.

I suspect that the 'old ways' of tribal infighting are at risk of persisting for centuries and are already raising their ugly head over here -that poor Glaswegian shopkeeper murdered by another muslim for preaching the 'wrong sort' of Islam. What next?

Suppose it wastribalism that caused Thomas Mair to murder Jo Cox

Yes Jane, just like Ireland.

Barmyoldbat Where do we draw the line numbers wise? were arenot just talking about Syrian refugees we need to include everyone arriving at our door asking for help whether they be European, African, Middle eastern etc.The U.K has accepted many refugees over the decades and it costs us money that we just dont have. If your household budget had to be stretched to house, feed, clothe, educate and provide health care for 1 more person without any financial increase you would manage, now make that 10 more people and im sure it would be a problem.Our countrys finances arent much different. Where do we find the money and the infrastructure. The answer is we dont we just shove more children in to each class, we squeeze more patients into each hospital and we ram more prisoners into our already over crowded jails.
I read a very interesting interview with an Afghani refugee who now lives in Glasgow, he has been here 12 years, Was given a house when he arrived ( not a room in a B&B unlike our young men) he has worked hard (unlike some of our young men) and now as a wife and many children ( unlike some of our young men) and that is great news. To enable him to leave Afghanistan his family sold their land and sent their son to a new life 12 years ago. My point is this, the family sold their land and now rely on charity to feed and house them.In Afghanistan he has a mother, wife and sisters but they were left to live without a home, and to life everyday with the hell of war. Barmyoldbat you asked what i would in that situation, i sure as heck wouldnt have decide that my Sons life was more precious than my Daughters life. But hey ho the gentleman being interviewed says it causes him some worry that his female relatives are still there.

I am not saying we dont need to draw the line but I still stand by my statement of allowing those from war torn countries. Your comment about an interview, I also saw an interview with four different refugees, one was a son fleeing with his two sisters , another with a young woman on her own, a family, all fleeing from war. Another was an african hoping for a better life. So out of four there was only one person taking advantage and he is the sort who should be stopped. Its the media not giving a balanced view. The people I work with and for, pay taxes and try to intergrage into the community. They also hope to return some day to their own country. The government wastes millions on wasteful projects and protecting their way of life, let them spend it on something that will help this country, collecting money fron NHS tourists, tax avoidance, and the list goes on, and lets not forget the housing shortage which cannot all be blamed on refugees. Last word. Muslim killing muslim for preaching the wrong kind of Islam, well lets not forget the killing Joe Cox for preaching the wrong kind of politics.

Well our government have said that they will accept 20,000 refugees from Syria over the course of the government and also that they will accept children from France who have a legal right to come here. They are "hurrying slowly" - agonisingly slowly - with the Syrians - we have just 3 families here who are very much welcomed by everyone I know. They have been through terrible times.
We still have our local promenade that was built by Belgian refugees in WW1 as a thank you for the hospitality the received.
The government made a complete hash of Calais and many kids entitled to be here are now dispersed and even harder to help.
In the 30s Jews were not welcome. The Daily Mail in particular was very hostile. The kindertransport arrangements were put in place late in the day and after a long struggle.

All killing is wrong. My comment re the muslim on muslim murder was to illustrate my point about the tribal type strife that goes on in the middle east starting up here.
Of course our own interdenominational warfare was/is daft. Just stupid. Why do people not just live and let live then all this unnecessary unpleasantness (to put it mildly) would stop. Testosterone has a lot to answer for!!

Killing people for the wrong kind of politics IS the same as tribalism - it is exactly the same as killing someone for being born into the wrong tribe. It is triggered by thinking "This person is not the same as me and mine. They must be eliminated"

Well said E and we have only to look at the history of Ireland for a good example of tribal killing.

given the fact the UK and the USA are isially at the forefront when it comes to either supplying the weapons used in these"wars" or activly using them we OWE these refugees a place of safety ...regardless of whether they are 18 or over ..if this is a "christian" country as I read regularly in the press then why are so many "christian" against the very principles of their religion...feed the hungry ,care for the old, the poor ,the sick and vulnerable...what happened to suffer little children to come unto me? Or love thy neighbour as thineself ? THIS country is NOT full ....its being badly managed and that is the reason services and housing are in short supply .Get a government who thinks about the people rather than themselves and their rich friends and seervices can be as good as they always were.Stop selling council...and housing association stock and build more houses where people need them .The conservatives ...selfservatives are failing the veterans of war ...not the refugees fault so blame the people who deserve the blame

Far too simplistic paddyann. Sorry. Expecting any country to just fling wide the doors and give everything away can't possibly work. I agree that we shouldn't sell arms though.
We do need wealth generators as they create employment for others and lead to tax payments that pay for our country to run. Drive out the capitalists and what happens -communism. That didn't work out too well!

Well said Paddyann

There is a short video which pops up on Facebook frequently which depicts a young boy carrying his sister and hiding behind rocks as a convoy of armed vehicles goes past. I am sure many of you will have seen it. In the midst of all the awful scenes on shown on TV and on-line it is this video that reduces me to tears everytime. WHY??

It can only be because the small boy in the video, bravely saving his sister, is, in size, clothing, age, facial features and demeanor the absolute double of my DGS. He cannot be dismissed as 'other' because he looks like one of my own family. I have to conclude that I (not a racist bone in my body) am also guilty of/subject to Tribalism. If someone looks like, sounds like, dresses like, me and mine they are more immediately accepted. Otherwise it takes a bit longer to get to know them. If there are shared interests e.g. children at same school, religion, sports supporters, political outlook, whatever, then the person is less alien, we have things in common, points of reference.

I suppose this is why I hang up immediately on a cold caller with a strong far eastern accent but tend to engage with those who sound 'local' (I'm especially fond of the Indian/Glasgow combination).

'Our' Syrian refugees (Our Wee County has proportionately more than any other part of the UK) whilst viewed with some trepidation in the abstract before they arrived, have rapidly been accepted as part of our community now that they have names (even if it is just thingamy's Mum or Dad) and their English, especially the children's, has come on by leaps and bounds. Parents take part in school activities and some Dads (who are not allowed to take paid employment] are volunteering their skills in the Community Garden etc. [As a bonus for us non-religious families the Schools have at last abandoned compulsory Christian observances at School Assemblies.] I think this acceptances has to do with them arriving as 'Families' - I remember when we moved to another village it was our children who were our passport into becoming 'locals'. It must be much harder for young single males to be accepted.

One of the many pities is that Syria was a very well educated country and many of the people in the camps could be contributing to our economy by filling jobs in the NHS, computer programming etc. Angela Merkel could see that.
There are now more Syrian children in school outside Syria than there are inside the country.
It is my observation that immigrants are far more willing to be entrepreneurial and start businesses than the white population.

Is Europe the only place to head for? Why only head West?