Tin Ear over Corona Virus and Boris Johnson

I thought the problem was not enough fast enough!

eg. www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/12/health-expert-brands-uks-coronavirus-response-pathetic

Can't resist copying James O'Brien on Twitter:
Can’t fault that press conference. They may be getting it wrong but their explanations were clear & compelling. It’s a shame we’re reduced to trusting a PM whose entire life has been spent lying & bluffing but Whitty & Vallance seem to be an effective antidote.

and twitter.com/DrTedros
#COVID19 is a controllable pandemic. Countries that decide to give up on fundamental public health measures (like case finding and contact tracing) may end up with a larger problem, and a heavier burden on the health system that requires more severe measures to control.

Dr Tedros is director general of the World Health Organization before I get quizzed!

POGS I watched all of it also, I think we have to trust our experts.

anniezz

'It’s a shame we’re reduced to trusting a PM whose entire life has been spent lying & bluffing but Whitty & Vallance seem to be an effective antidote'
----

That sums up what I am saying in a nut shell!

It is attacking Boris Johnson using the usual personal abusive rhetoric , common ground for some, but then admits Whitty and Vallance are effective.

That's the point I am making. Boris Johnson, the government IS taking their lead from Whitty and Vallance yet the clamour is for Johnson to be more assertive.

Why. If he is an idiot in the eyes of some why do they call for him to take the lead?

Tin Ear or collective madness?

POGS I agree with everything you say. I am not a fan of Johnson, but have been impressed with the way he has conducted interviews, deferring to Prof Whitty and Sir Patrick. There will always be some who disagree, but I am reassured by the handling of this virus.

I also think the Gov and the NHS were quick off the mark in providing information.

POGS- I entirely agree with you!

The NHS have been under resourced for years . They are trying to delay the crisis. Fine. They admit it.

Very clearly explained during the interview, absolute sense and the process will buy some time and maybe more ventilators. They are doing a good job, steering this massive ship

POGS I agree with you . Well said . I can see this may develop into a very interesting thread

I agree with you too POGS.
I'm not sure whether I understand your post correctly Vegansrock, but the strategy of delay is for good clinical & logistical reasons.
I don't think any healthcare system would have sufficient resources to adequately treat the numbers if there was a huge spike in cases (as opposed to a gentle curve spread over a longer period of time), and there would be fewer people to provide essential services if very large numbers were all infected at the same time. What they are trying to do, as I understand it, is reduce the number of people infected at any one time & that seems snsible to me.

Hear, hear, POGS.

Let’s face it. We’re sailing in uncharted waters, and no one has all the answers. I think we have to trust the advice we’re being given, act on it to the best of our ability, try and stay calm and hope things work out. There is nothing else we CAN do really.

I also think the Gov and the NHS were quick off the mark in providing information.

Actually they tried for a day or so to say they would only give out information once a week and wouldn't tell us where cases of the virus were occurring. It was only an outcry from the public that made them change their mind!

I think it's a shame to pick James O'Brien's quote rather than that from the director general of the WHO.

My personal view is that BJ is a total (expletive you won't like), I cannot believe that such a person could be PM, further more this bunch of Tories are out to shaft us and care very little about the outcome. Did no one see the headline from the New York Times that I posted this morning?

U.K. Shields Its Economy From the Virus, but Not Yet Its People

www.nytimes.com/2020/03/11/world/europe/economy-britain-coronavirus.html?fbclid=IwAR1L18Xbx8Ej-DK6NVPsGS-tWLe8VL1FbZRnKOzUqajJq6G3qH8wgrovC9o

Only a couple of days ago BJ was saying why not let the virus blow through, deal with a bit of sickness and death and then we'll come out the other side.

As for experts, don't make me laugh. What was it Gove was saying pre Brexit? The expert who rules this government is called Dominic Cummings and he is an expert at making trouble and feathering his own nest.

Well said, POGS. I’m no Boris fan, but I’m not going to criticise him for taking expert advice and not being rushed into taking draconian measures before it’s appropriate to do so.

All makes sense to me. I thought the media speech was clear, informative, and reassuring. We all need to take responsibility for ourselves and follow guide lines given by the people who know what they’re talking about.

POGS- I may need to be taken off to be re-educated (joke ish_) but I agree with you. I listened carefully to the press conference on radio 4, I'm currently watching Ch4 news. I'm feeling re-assured that the government is following good advice from its (good) experts.
I'm in a high risk category, ie over 70, a number of existing health issues and on immuno suppressant medication. I feel we're in safe hands. The only advice I've had from the company than supplies my medication (the immune suppressant) is to continue taking the meds because they keep me in the best health possible. If I'm unfortunate enough to get the virus I'll have the best chance of coming through ok.

I'm relieved schools aren't to be closed. It sounds as though the government gets it. That if schools close, it will be grandparents like me who'll be expected to step in so their adult children can continue to work (and keep the economy alive)

The government and its advisors may have it wrong. There is though an issue about social isolation, behavioural science - people won't sustain that over a sustained period.

I am hand washing endlessly, I won't go to a very large gathering. I will go to the classes I enjoy and I will take my young dog to our training group.

Sad and conditioned as I am, I would like a statesman or woman to be the public face of this. A mouthpiece, somebody who looks and sounds the part.

Right now, I don't care who it is really. Surely the elected PM of the UK would be an obvious choice?

vegansrock Thu 12-Mar-20 18:41:34

'The NHS have been under resourced for years . They are trying to delay the crisis. Fine. They admit it.'
-

Did you watch the update?

They were all perfectly candid in that they felt it was the correct timing to move from the ' CONTAIN PHASE ' to the ' DELAY PHASE':-

The next phase is 'delay', which would see a mixture of the same advice from the contain phase and new measures. Under the delay phase, the Government could close schools and ban large public gatherings, such as concerts, festivals and football matches. The Government will also urge anyone who shows symptoms to stay at home (already happening).

The delay phase aims to slow the spread of the pandemic in the UK and, if it does take hold, to lessen its impact and push its peak away from the winter season to the summer, when it should be easier to manage.

The Government's planning document explained: "The benefits are that if the peak of the outbreak can be delayed until the warmer months, we can reduce significantly the risk of overlapping with seasonal flu and other challenges, societal or medical, that the colder months bring.

The Government's planning document explained: "The benefits are that if the peak of the outbreak can be delayed until the warmer months, we can reduce significantly the risk of overlapping with seasonal flu and other challenges, societal or medical, that the colder months bring.

"The delay phase also buys time for the testing of drugs and initial development of vaccines and/or improved therapies or tests to help reduce the impact of the disease."

The main difference between the contain and delay phases is that the delay strategy includes proposals to close schools, restrict large public gatherings and further encourage employers to let their employees work from home to stop the virus spreading quickly. But the Government says it will weigh any restrictions against their economic and social impact.

What actions will the Government consider in the delay phase?

School closures and restrictions on large gatherings - like concerts and football matches - are among the actions the Government could take during the delay phase.

It says: "Action that would be considered could include population distancing strategies (such as school closures, encouraging greater home working, reducing the number of large-scale gatherings) to slow the spread of the disease throughout the population, while ensuring the country’s ability to continue to run as normally as possible.

"The UK Government's education departments' planning assumptions include the possibility of having to close educational settings in order to reduce the spread of infection."
--

Vegansrock. When you say ' finally they admit it' I don't follow your argument.

It is ' admitting ' things are going to get worse but I have never seen nor heard the government say this would not happen. Hence they have told the country so often they are committed a 4 PHASE method of trying to deal with the outbreak.

Do you have a problem with the ' DELAY PHASE'?

Experts will give a range of advice, they won't dictate what should be done. The government may have asked for a strategy that protects the economy, rather than minimises the impact on public health, the two would seem to be incompatible. Hong Kong and Singapore have managed to control spread by social distancing and being very strict about it. You would think that the government decision making would be informed by their success. You need to take people with you which you can do by public information and gaining trust. Here some people still think its flu. Their light touch seems a risky strategy, assuming that people will get bored with the necessary restrictions.

anniezz09

' My personal view is that BJ is a total (expletive you won't like), I cannot believe that such a person could be PM, further more this bunch of Tories are out to shaft us and care very little about the outcome.'
-
That is why I consider you and other posters are in fact weaponising the COVID 19 outbreak to malign the PM and Tories and having a case of Tin Ear.

I started this thread because I am astounded that party politics has even entered the fray although I did expect that to happen, this is Gransnet after all, but so many threads are showing posts that in fact are purely posted to attack Boris Johnson and some posters don't even engage with COVID 19 problem we all share, whether we vote red, blue, yellow, purple spotty dog.

I am trying to rise above party politics other than asking why those who think Boris Johnson is an idiot clamour for him to make the medical decisions and cannot understand he is listening to what/who they usually accuse him of not doing ' listening to the experts'. A Tin Ear.

Good post POGS.
I think there are many who fail to grasp what a massive balancing act the management of this new phenomenon is. The scientists readily admit that they don't have all the answers but are applying what they have learned from other countries who are ahead of us in terms of timing of the outbreak. The delay phase ISN'T about inactivity on the part of the government! It is about managing the speed of anticipated spread so that the NHS can best cope with those needing intensive care. Nothing to do with underfunding but everything to do with the inevitable rapid escalation of numbers of infected people who are likely to need ventilator support

POGS I don't know what else people are expecting over and above the advice of the top experts in the country, who are advising the government.

janeainsworth Thu 12-Mar-20 18:53:21
Yes. We cannot keep resources and qualified staff on hand, under-used except when needed in the time of a crisis which may only happen on rare occasions. That would be a total inefficiency and waste of resources.

He is the leader we're stuck with. NO, he isn't in the top 100 to lead us through this crisis. BUT he's what we've got.

They should have been shutting things down at least 2 or 3 weeks ago. THEN we wouldn't be faced with what is about to be out of control levels of transmission. Which is exactly what was pointed out by AnnieZZZ09
twitter.com/DrTedros
#COVID19 is a controllable pandemic. Countries that decide to give up on fundamental public health measures (like case finding and contact tracing) may end up with a larger problem, and a heavier burden on the health system that requires more severe measures to control.

Our decimated NHS is not going to cope. Some people are going to die at home, in their beds.

Say what you like about China, they had people in hospitals. They used extracorporeal membrane oxygenation, removing the blood, reoxygenating it and then transfusing it back in. We don't have that available.

The Tories underfunded the health service. We were prewarned about this crisis with the Chinese model. And still they sat around, hoping it wouldn't kick off.

SO. No tin ear. No praise for Bodgit, but we're stuck with him. So yes, it's good that he NOW has experts behind him. But the reason they didn't implement a preliminary lockdown and tracing of contacts of early sufferers to prevent us getting to this point was MONEY. And now the elderly of the UK are going to pay for it.