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Advice from ex-teachers out there....

(66 Posts)
Luckygirl Mon 20-Jul-15 13:52:34

A friend of mine has been told that her son cannot study German at A level, as there are two few pupils wishing to start it in September. He is in an academy with its own sixth form. German is clearly listed on their website as an A level option.

The school has suggested that he search out a distance learning course, but that his family would have to bear the cost and there would be no financial help or learning support from the school.

There other suggestion is to change schools!

Where do they stand over this? I would have thought that if a pupil was registered at the school then his education was the school's responsibility.

Gracesgran Tue 21-Jul-15 10:30:43

You would hope that schools could cooperate where numbers are low. I find it surprising that there is only one school with a 6th Form unless this area is very rural.

granjura Tue 21-Jul-15 11:11:45

He has the choice of going to another 6th Form that offers it- or ask the school if he can go to another school to just follow the German- if timetabling works out. It is well worth pursuing for the very reasons that cause the problem here- so few students do German A'Level, that they can get really good jobs and be accepted on great Degree and Post Grad courses because of the German- in banking, accounting, science, engineering, etc, as well as the more obvious linguistic studies. As I taught both, when students who could only pick one asked for advice, I always said take German, for reasons given.

granjura Tue 21-Jul-15 11:13:56

Not sure about Adult Education classes. When I was studying for A'Level course at Leicester Adult Education college- we had 3 x 6th formers from local colleges doing the night course with us- as it could not be offered at their 6th forms.

trisher Tue 21-Jul-15 11:18:28

I think the first thing your friend should do is try to find out if there are any other people in the same position. Communication at this stage of education is difficult and it could be that there are quite a few others. If the school has cut courses there is probably a very narrow line between those it has cut and those it continues to fund. A group of parents will have more influence than one family (perhaps contact his peers who have taken German GCSE with him).
If the school continues to refuse to run a course you could then look at alternatives together. Many good suggestions have already been given. The only thing I would add is that the reason for wanting to do German is important. If it is for an essential for the direction he has chosen then he must move to where he can do the A level. If it is because he enjoys and is good at it he could find a way to develop his skill without any academic focus.

granjura Tue 21-Jul-15 14:14:34

perhaps like a gap year working or studying in Germany- or do his 3rd university year via Erasmus in Germany- having kept up his German via privat tuition (often possible on exchange basis with a German student, etc- even by Skype). The possibilities outside the strict academic framework are endless with a bit of imagination and support.

Luckygirl Tue 21-Jul-15 14:39:51

I appreciate the difficulties that an arise over putting on all A-level courses in schools, but it is just particularly unfortunate in this instance, as this school was chosen because of its designation as a Modern Foreign Languages College, and the family feel very let down - which is not unreasonable.

MargaretX Tue 21-Jul-15 15:05:01

Lets not forget the Goethe Institute. Sometimes known as the German Institute, this exists for the teaching of the German language and the propogation of German Culture abroad. Like the Institute Francais or the British Council.
There is one in Manchester and London to my knowledge and their courses are the best you will ever find, they also have many courses in Germany but then funding could be a problem.
The National Extension College ( hope I've got the name right)does distance learning and I did 'A' level Psychology with them some years ago.
You can pay monthly.
best of luck!

granjura Tue 21-Jul-15 15:35:26

luckygirl- if this school is a Mod Langs specialist school- then I think they have a much better case- at least to team up with another school/s to make up a class.

I'm afraid the the multiplicity of new courses available nowadays- some seen as 'easy/soft' options (which are not actually so, only perceived) is creating real problems for more traditional courses, like mod langs and history, geography, etc. as Alea says- tragic.

granjura Tue 21-Jul-15 15:44:37

I would certainly get in touch with the Head of Governors if the school is listed as a specialist Mod langs college! The least they could do is to advertise in all other local schools to form and timetable a viable group.
But as said, there are just too many (soft) options now available- diluting all courses and also costing a fortune to sustain- and which are not even valued by UCAS/unis and or employers. Universities offering many of those courses actually do prefer to take on students who have studied other more traditional subjects (for Law, Sociology and Psychology Degrees, and many more).

suzied Tue 21-Jul-15 15:54:47

I worked at a school which got money for being an " engineering" specialism but didn't offer engineering at any level.

granjura Tue 21-Jul-15 15:59:00

Our DD1 for instance, was chosen for an IT Post Grad trainee course BECAUSE she had not studied IT, for either A'Level or Degree- as they felt students who had done IT for GCSE, A'Level and even Degree- had too narrow a knowledge field and mind.

granjura Wed 22-Jul-15 09:42:11

same for sil- this is how they met. They were both chosen for having studied 'traditional A'Levels' rather than 'new trendy ones'- as they are a much better marker of ability.

Penstemmon Sat 01-Aug-15 22:00:20

GJ what an odd assumption and rather old hat thinking. This hierarchy of 'cleverness' and 'difficulty' is artificial. Traditional A levels are easy for those who have a natural aptitude in that aspect but may find , fr example, choreographing a dance extremely difficult. It is all ability but society values one sort more than another. In my opinion those with a high ability of emotional and social literacy are probably the most successful and personally happy in life!

Joan Sat 01-Aug-15 22:51:09

Is there any chance of his going to Germany as an exchange student? That way he would be fluent in no time, and could do the academic part via online teaching. He could then start 6th form a year later.

German is too important a language to give up, and although most Western European kids now speak English, it needs a native English speaker to do translating and interpreting - in other words, protocol demands that you only translate INTO your own language. Then there are many science and engineering texts that only exist in German.

I would put pressure on the board of governors to be true to their school's advertising, or pay for an online course.

Back in the old days of grammar schools, my sister was one of only two that did A level Latin, and one pf 6 doing German.

MargaretX Sat 01-Aug-15 23:02:22

Penst it is wrong to assume that 'A' levels are easy. The traditional ones are a lot of work and as for choreography I can imagine that someone with a set of good traditional A levels would set about Choreography in a structiured way and could learn it, providing he / she could dance. I think you will find that very good dancers are very intelligent people.

There is nothing to be won for a country to lower standards in education and of course social skills are important but if a land is to move on and keep up it needs its children to be well educated and especially the bright ones have to be appreciated and given the best chances. The future lies in their hands especially their IT skills.

Nelliemoser Sat 01-Aug-15 23:22:55

My husbands Bil who was a German teacher in a highly academic state grammar school in the home counties for many years found that eventually there were so few pupils wanting to take German that the were talking to him about redunancy. In the end he jumped at the chance in case they changed their minds.
He did quite a few more years as an examiner and moderator. Probably still does.

Joan Sun 02-Aug-15 00:33:06

I did my German A level externally as my parents did not allow me to stay on at school. I eventually went to Vienna as an au pair, and sent for the German A level syllabus. They sent me the whole book of all the subjects, and the academic couple I lived with were shocked to see that the British A levels were the same level as their first year at university. And we are talking about the University of Vienna here; a highly respected institution.

So yes - they can be very very hard.

absent Sun 02-Aug-15 07:28:02

I have professional dance qualifications but couldn't possibly choreograph anything more demanding that a class exercise (although I did learn how to record movement on paper). I have passed a bunch of music exams but couldn't compose to save my life. Let's get real about extending education and its qualifications beyond the boundaries that we quite old people remember. The world – and its needs – changes.

Penstemmon Sun 02-Aug-15 09:30:05

margaretx I am not sure if we agree or not! My point was that 'higher ability' is an intellectually snobby term. People can be extremely clever in many different ways. I was never suggesting A levels were easy but I was challenging the view that a person was of higher abiliy if they studied one subject rather than another. I gave being able to choreograph as an example of high ability. In my mind it is equal to being able to get a history/laguage degree. Just a different set of skills. Society generally values one type of abilty above another. I happen to disagree with that opinion.

annodomini Sun 02-Aug-15 10:19:38

One of my sons got a first class degree in a non-traditional area which has led to a satisfying and reasonably well-paid career. I was, proud mother, telling my colleages about his success when one of them got very sniffy, comparing his degree to another staff offspring's who had just got a 2.1 in history from Oxford. I was so cross, but later, thinking about it, I reflected on the amount of research my son had done and the dissertation he had written. The study skills he had shown were no less than the egghead youth's who had got the history degree. What's more, in addition to his honours degree subjects, he also achieved a pass degree in Spanish at the same time. And captained the university's hockey team. And I'm still very proud of him as he later took an MBA by distance learning, has a brillilant partner and two lovely children. So let's have no snobbery about vocational and non-traditional subjects at A-level or any other level.

Gracesgran Sun 02-Aug-15 10:46:16

I do think this is a bit of the old puritanism coming in. All A levels are set to a framework and to be an "A" level they all have certain standards they have to reach. It seems to be that some feel if you have enjoyed it then it cannot be so difficult. I would agree that some A levels may (and degrees) may not be as relevant but I certainly do not agree that they are not all the same standard.

I have been listening very carefully to programmes about education and feel, more and more, that this government will aim to charge for all post 18 education, including FE. I expect they hope the employers will pay ... we shall see.

granjura Sun 02-Aug-15 14:18:32

Anno- I was talking about A'Levels, not Degrees. And no, no misplaces puritanism- just so many years as a 6th Form specialist.

The UK is the best country probably at creating brilliant people in all the arts domains- due to the flexibility of the A'Level and Degree system. The Continental Baccalaureate system is very wide, all subjects have to be studied until Uni entrance- and evade so many brilliant performers, designers, etc, sadly, tragically even.

However, most Unis we dealt with offering Law, Psychology, Sociology, Media, etc, told us they preferred taking on students who had not done those subjects at A'Level- and did weigh in 'traditional' subjects as better indicators of potential in many ways.

annodomini Sun 02-Aug-15 15:18:01

I'm not saying that DS2 didn't get good A-levels in traditional subjects. He did and other universities offered him a place. But the one he chose was offering the courses he wanted to take.

granjura Sun 02-Aug-15 15:50:27

and that is great and how it should be.

All I was saying if that the choice of subject tells a lot to UCAS/Unis and propsective employers, about the student- and they very quickly, rightly or wrongly, will still treat a student with, say, as an example : 'maths, physics and chemistry', or 'history, German and English Lit' to 'sociology, media studies and IT' or 'PE, Performing Arts and psychology'- depending on the course chosen or the Post Grad trainee course- even if a good Degree is obtained later. A'Level choices and marks count for a huge deal in selecting candidates for certain jobs, even post grad.

Penstemmon Tue 04-Aug-15 22:36:15

But isn't that because many of the people selecting students for uni are themselves intellectual snobs?? You are saying they prefer the trad. subjects . I argue that it is because they are simply maintaining a status quo and not necessarily based on applicants ability/potential which the unis find harder to assess when students have taken less trad. subjects.