Evolution of the English Language

I also am interested in the way English has evolved but still get furious when the way it is NOW is misused. Some battles appear to be lost - ‘I was sat on the sofa’ rather than ‘sitting’; don’t even get me started on the two DIFFERENT verbs ‘to lie’ and ‘to lay’ (both of these frequently wrong on national news);and, my Covid-19 favourite, ‘deaths are down’. No, they’re not! The NUMBER of deaths is down.
When I trained as a local newspaper journalist in the ‘70s, we were corrected loudly and publicly by a fierce editor whenever these sorts of blunders were made. I would love to know whether any of our current crop of journalists are ever corrected.
Pronounciation is a whole other matter. I scream every time Beth Rigby (otherwise excellent Sky News journalist) leaves the ‘g’ off any word ending in ‘ing’ but then Priti Patel, the Home Secretary, also does it with the result that I never listen to anything she says. I can’t believe no one has ever told her about this infuriating habit.
Or is it just me?!

gouged always sounds rather nasty, eg when used in reference to eyes!
sick is another term the meaning of which is now the opposite to the original.

People have always used 'slang' whereas correct use of the English language is critical when report writing for business, medical, legal or other purposes. The use of Latin for botanical purposes as Elegran describes could be critical too. Sloppiness or use of everyday slang in these areas could lead to disaster.
Just because younger generations claim certain words and change the meaning of them doesn't mean that that meaning is correct. It's just slang.

Slang definition: a type of language consisting of words and phrases that are regarded as very informal, are more common in speech than writing, and are typically restricted to a particular context or group of people.

We don't have to get down wiv da kids

People have used slang in everyday speech, in novels but has now become more accepted by those using social media. Showing frustration with those who may not be up-to-date with the latest terms shows a high degree of intolerance which is not a pleasant trait.

Rufus it's interesting that you are the one who started this thread, as the English language has developed along different paths over the centuries in Australia and other countries such as America.

Ditto ‘vicious’, which I gather - at least according to Jane Austen’s usage - used to mean someone with vices such as gambling or excessive drinking.

That makes perfect sense, but it's the first time I've come across that derivation. I really enjoy finding out things like this.

I agree that there is a difference between sloppiness (eg 'would of') and evolution (eg 'woke'). Life is changing so quickly that vocabulary has had to adapt and grow to keep pace, and a combination of media expansion and globalisation means that we are all exposed to a much greater range of English usage than ever before.

I admit to my own foibles, such as bristling when I hear things like 'there will be less people on the trains' in a news broadcast; but on the whole, I wonder whether an insistence on clinging to 'the rules' is an attempt to cling to the elite status that used to be held by those with a more educated way of speaking?

When we didn't move around so much, and didn't hear other ways of talking, most people would talk in the same way as those around them, with dialect being more common (in all senses of the word) than Standard English, so anyone who knew 'the rules' and applied them in speech would be immediately marked out as educated and given high status.

Whilst I would be the first to argue that language shouldn't lose its precision (and I think it is a huge advantage to have a wide vocabulary and the ability to express oneself in a nuanced manner), I prefer egalitarianism to elitism, and despise the way in which people are sometimes 'put in their place' for not knowing how to use the subjunctive or similar, usually by someone who has a knowledge of grammar but who is losing the argument.

"I do think evolution of the language is a rather different thing from sloppiness." (Witzend)
I agree. ]To illustrate sloppy use of English I accuse the characters in that Buying Houses in the Sun TV programme where the estate agent uses a limited and cliched jargon and nearly all the clients try to imitate the cliches and unfortunately they succeed pretty well.

What I miss most in the evolution of the english language is the disapearance of local accents and dialect words and phrases.
I grew up in Northumberland and the local 'twangs' are still there (apart from the gutteral 'r') but I haven't heard many old dialect words and phrases.
Occasionally on the bus "How's it gannin?" And lots of "Aye -Aam gannin aal reet".
Always from us oldies.

Fennel, I thought you might enjoy this:

www.northumbriana.org.uk/langsoc/

There is a bit of Northumbrian dialect on the right side of the page. I lived in rurla Northumberland for eight years but I can understand the dialect as it's so similar to the dialect of the Scottish Borders where I was reared.

Why not invent new words to describe these attitudes, these emotions?

Why take a word which has had one particular meaning for hundreds of years and decide that it should mean something else, then deride those who are either unaware or who disagree?

It's just laziness.
It displays a sense of superiority which is wholly undeserved.

I just subscribed to her podcast. I am also interested in how language evolves, and especially the history of idioms.

Don't see the article referenced in original post, but am happy to hear what the author has to say.

Thanks Alexa that made me smile .
It's a different language!

I frequently heave out whatever Shakespeare I’ve been told to teach (it’s rare I get to select myself) to the groans of students.

By the time we’re finished, they’ve enjoyed it.

Text speak has more or less been and gone. It was addressed 15 or so years ago in a piece of coursework in English but was got rid of as the phenomena waned once 140 character text limits became a thing of the past. It’s left remnants such as LOL.

Fennel and Alexa I live in Tyneside and have worked in Northumberland off and on for 15 years. When I first moved up here, it took me 3 months to be able to effortlessly understand my students.

Who would imagine that ‘Haway wi wu’ or ‘Ah divnt knaa’ were English?

The evolution of the English language has been a good development especially for those who have not done well in education.

The courts in Britain (especially the industrial courts) for a substantial period of time now have accepted that provided that any document presented to them is understandable to "any person of average intellect" then that document is acceptable as evidence to the court.

By example, the above has been an enormous development for people who have been unfairly dismissed from their employment and who are not members of a trade union. Therefore such persons can find themselves with no legal representation in an industrial court.

The above persons can now make up their own bundle for presentation to the court in the knowledge that statements they may write and those of witnesses who may support them do not have to be word perfect, but just understandable.

I have often seen messaging text used in such documents (by example, U used in place of the word YOU) and in such circumstances that not even being referred to by the tribunal chairman. Indeed, I have witnessed a tribunal chairman "rip into" a solicitor who attempted to belittle a person who had written a statement in such a text messaging manner in the industrial court (industrial tribunal).

Therfore, I firmly believe that the development of the English language into what has now become a less formal format is for the vast majority of people something which has brought far more equality into their everyday lives.

Some evidence may be acceptable in a court of law but the evidence of an expert witness in a criminal case needs to be precise and properly worded.

Callistemon in regard to your above post, in the case of an expert witness that very much is the case. However, such expert representatives have legal secretaries etc to proofread their documents, where with typical witnesses the court would not require such exemplary written documentation.

If they are experts in their subject they wouldn't use a legal secretary who may not be versed in, for example, scientific, medical, or other technical areas of expertise.

Callistemon in regard to your post @23:46 yesterday, I believe you misunderstand the role of a legal secretary when court documents are being compiled.

It is the role of the expert witness to address the scientific, medical, technical or any other issue that may require the judgment of the court. A legal secretaries main role in that process is offten to research where other court judgments may bring influence to the case at hand.

By example to the above, where there has been a workplace accident it is the role of the expert witness to examine all matters that may have caused the incident. In that, the expert will search out any risk assessments that have been compiled that are relevant to the incident, and then oversee whether those assessments were sufficient in composition to cover the work practise involved. That professional would then look at the safe working practices employed in any procedure and if any PPEs etc that are supplied are adequate to the process, and whether all the forgoing are sufficient in total for the task that is carried out.

The role of the legal secretary in the above is, as stated, to research where there may have been a similar workplace accident or incident that have been brought before the courts. The secretary then will seek out the judgments in those cases, and then examine as to whether those verdicts are relevant to the case under examination.

The legal secretary then draws both the expert witness report and his or her own findings into single or multiple documentations that are then added to "the bundle" to be placed before the court.

While carrying out all the above it is also the job of the legal secretary to proofread all reports etc and ensure that every comma, period and apostrophe are exactly where they should be.

Of course, close collaboration is required between the professional expert and the legal secretary throughout all stages of the above.

Fennel alexa gagajo I grew up in Northumberland too and from time to time have been know to still say “I divn’t knaa “.
At school the deputy head had the guttural R and I particularly remember enjoying how he would dismiss assemble by telling us “No rrrruning in the corrridors”

Well, people may use legal secretaries in your area of expertise eg industrial safety, but certainly other professionals may not.

Thanks for the link to the Northumbrian language Alexa. I thought it interesting that she regards Northumbrian as a seperate language and yet many of the words she uses do not necesarily have the same meaning in other parts of the North. "Bait" for example, which she says is a meal, is used in Newcastle and mining villages to mean the lunch a workman takes with him. I was raised in Yorkshire and "Skeddadlin" meant specifically running off or away from something.
Children were warned "Don't you go skeddadlin".
I think the terms for counting sheep are so interesting. And the Cumbrian accent (is it also a language?) is different to Northumbrian en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumbrian_dialect

Trisher, what you say, above, is very significant. My great read at present is about the ancient kingdoms of Britain, and their place names and languages.

The home schooling work, which my 8 year old granddaughter is being set this week, is to use adverbial clauses, so schools do still teach these sort of things. However, if people don't continue to practise using them throughout life, they get forgotten.

It is funny how you remember things Alexa I hadn't thought about skedaddle for years. It was also something my dad said when he didn't want us interfering or messing with something he was doing. Being told to "Skeddadle" was common. I suppose that is one thing which education has lost for us. Proper English was very important as far as my mum was concerned. She didn't want us having strong Yorkshire accents like our country cousins.
I got interested in the extent of the Percy family estates. At one point they owned most of the land from Beverley in the south Malton to the West up to the Scottish border, effectively what was Northumbria

My Scottish family said skedaddle and also called me a wee bletherskite.

Lovely word Alexa - bletherskite

Trisher , the Duke is still referred to in Alnwick and area as very much an active presence with regards to what land he controls.