A Death Certificate query

A very interesting thread. My grandmother is in an unmarked grave with another person buried in with her. Next door is a baby of the family which is next door to my great grandmother although the headstone next to that is for my great grandfather and great grandmother. A great aunt is buried a few rows in front between two marked graves of other people. Her grave is also unmarked. My cousin and I found these my pure chance when looking , after my Mums funeral as I remembered visiting this area of the cemetery as a child with my Mum who used a very large stone angle to find the grave. The headstone was laying flat and upon standing it up really gave us the chills. I have done some research into my family, my grandmother on my Dads side was brought up in the work house.
Yes there is real sadness in these unmarked graves, and I am pleased that you have some answers Anniebach

RE GRO searches - I've only just realised that even though free BMD doesn't havae all the ages at death, if you go as if you are going to order a certificate it does bring up the entry you are interested in, and it does give the age, so have been able to disregard some deaths
Likewise even before the maiden name comes up on free BMD, it usually comes up on the GRO site, so you either know it is them or it is not them or it throws up an in teresting search.
You obviously don't need to go and order the pdf if you do not want to
As for informant, I have started trying to find out what happened to some of my direct grandparents , and first one I did was he died in the pub of heart failure. Not a heart attack heart failure and build up fo fluid, I've been making up stories, maybe he wasn't well and stopped off for help on his way home from work and just collapsed...the informant has the same name as a brother or son in law, but at a differnt address to that at the census a year later, so don't know if it was just that he was there when it happened and was nominated as the person to do it, or he was sparing his widow who had a small child from the journey to the register office on a cold winters day
RE the deep graves, there are some in Leeds Beckett st cemetery called guinea graves, yes they are many deep but for a guinea you could have your loved oe's name and dates on a stone with 29 others. There is a book called 'to prove I'm not forgot' - living and dying in a victoria city by Sylvia Barnard which is about Beckett St cemetery, she has also done one called viewing the breathless corpse all about coroners and inquests
Both very informative for anyone even if not from Leeds

Grandtante I suspect that could be the answer - the registrar reaching for the simplest solution. There’s no one of the surname George in the wider family so I don’t think they were related. I even wondered if it was a close friend or a nurse.

JennyCee- you can obtain copies of birth certificates from registrars office.or online.

I'm intrigued why you "have a few death certificates"‐ tracing the family tree i presume.(not read every entry on here sorry)?

Did he definitely die in hospital or was he taken there and pronounced dead on or shortly after arrival? May I ask the stated cause of death?

Sri to intrude on a ‘death certificate’ enquiry. I have had my DNA “read and they put my grandmothers name as Langston.
I actually had call from someone saying we were related, but I am almost 100% sure G’s name was Langton.
With all the knowledge on this site, can anyone advise me how to find G’s birth cert? I am the last one in this family so can’t ask anyone in the know.

FreeBMD - tsk tsk, autocorrect.

Free me is a very helpful resource, just bear in mind that not all parish records have been transcribed & on occasion there are some errors. The bolding of the records will show if the transcription, by volunteers, has been repeated & verified.

Overall, it is a great site & many thanks to the FreeBMD volunteers.

My person definitely died in hospital

Hi, could be a local priest, or neighbour.

I have certificates of death for ancestor in which the person present at death only has initial and surname..... problem is the persons wife and mother have same initial!.

I gt grandmother had three brothers who all died in there twenties back in 1880s. I got the death certificates for each as was puzzled........one died of a heart defect another from what is now called TB but the third died from ' loss of blood due to self inflicted cut throat! due to 'want of work' .. how tragic for a mother to lose three young men.....

Sue, could M. George simply have described herself as a stepdaughter when registring the death? She may have been afraid that you had to be a relative to register a death,

The registrar's office may have been overworked and made a mistake, though, as the Spanish Flu epedemic started in 1918.

Annie, there are ways you can have his name inscribed but it will be down to the cemetery's discretion. You could have inscribed for example, 'wife of XX' but it has not to suggest he is buried there too.

These stories are interesting but so sad. Poverty causes so much sadness

I don't know what the law in Wales is regarding an unattended death.

In Scotland, it is a police matter, if a person is found dead, and no G.P. can or will sign the death certificate. By law the doctor has to previously have attended the deceased and be certain that he actually died of the condition he was attended for, or one related to it, to sign the certificate.

When there is any doubt the death is referred either by the physician or the police to the Procurator Fiscal's office as until the Fiscal pronounces otherwise it is classed as "a suspicious death" - meaning one that might be the result of a crime.

I imagine at the time Annie is speaking of, that a death of a person who died in hospital would, if no relatives were to be found, have been registered by the hospital Registrar.

The absence of a given name on the certificate suggests to my mind that the death did not occur in a hospital, as there the patient's full name would have been required upon admittance. This might not have been possible if the person had been admitted dead on arrival or unconcious, but it sounds odd.

I find this site very useful to finetune records
www.freebmd.org.uk/

It is a pity so much charged for the very old records. The Irish ones are fully available online subject to 100 yr rule for birth, 75 for marriage and 50 yrs for death.

GSM said What a sad story Sue. Are you absolutely certain your grandfather hadn’t been married before or fathered a child before he married your grandmother? Do you have your grandparents’ marriage certificate? Have you been able to find him on the 1911 census and the other children on the 1921 census?

I’m as certain as I can be that there were no previous children. The family travelled back and forth from SA to UK a number if times and there were never any other names on the ship’s manifests.

There are no marriage certificates because they were married in SA, although someone has sent me a copy of a church register which shows the marriage. They’re not on the 1911 Census because they were not in the UK then.

Two of the children were dead by 1921 and the other son was living near where my dad was living in Kent.

GSM, the deep graves with bodies piled in is so sad. I didn’t know until fairly recently that that’s why churches are often at a lower level than their graveyards - it’s not that the churches have sunk, it’s that the earth has gradually accumulated in height due to the bodies.

Annie thank you for understanding. These stories of the past fascinate me.

Coincidentally, a friend happened to mention today that her husband’s family had a case like John Darwin, the missing canoe man fraudster. Her dh’s uncle went missing during WW2, his clothing found on a beach on the NW of England and no body ever found. He was eventually declared dead and his wife remarried but he then turned up one day, many years later! They don’t know much else of the story as it was all very hush hush, their secret shame and now everyone is dead, so they’ll probably never know exactly what happened.

Families, eh? ?‍♀️

Glad you solved your original query, Anniebach.

I have a strange story in my family. I was having difficulty getting a death certificate for my great grandmother. The local office drew a blank. To cut a long story short, she had been renamed by her partner! She had taken his surname and changed her first name too! The partner registered her as his wife, though they were not married. The church register has her buried in this other name. Eventually the GRO found a certificate that had been officially corrected by my great GM’s brother, who gave the correct name and stated that she was a spinster.
Once I knew this I was able to find her on the 1901 and 1911 censuses in this new name, with my grandfather living with her. He was noted as step- son of her partner, so he was not his father. I already knew that my grandfather was born out of wedlock, but I have not been able to trace his father.

Anniebach

jaylucy it’s so sad, his inlaws bought ground in the Churchyard when his wife died, now there are the graves of his
wife, her sister and husband, her parents, three brothers and their wives.

I now want his name engraved on his wife’s head stone , is this
silly ?

Not in the slightest Annie. I would want to do that too.

The only BMD registrations available online are old marriage registrations through Ancestry or FMP. They have some church marriage registers which can be very useful and saves ordering marriage certificates. But birth and death registrations never have been online, and I'm certain never will be. You must order the certificate, which means you need to be pretty certain it's the right person otherwise you're wasting money. Birth and death can be ordered as a PDF for £7.00 but marriages are paper copies only for £11.00

jaylucy it’s so sad, his inlaws bought ground in the Churchyard when his wife died, now there are the graves of his
wife, her sister and husband, her parents, three brothers and their wives.

I now want his name engraved on his wife’s head stone , is this
silly ?

Possibly the registration was made by the undertaker.
If there was a family rift, no one else may have been prepared to travel to register the death.

I don’t remember ever being able to look at certificates before buying.

mumskie you cannot access free B.M.D certificates on any site

Could I just ask about certificates too? I did a lot of research for my husband's family tree, but lost heart after he died. All of you are so right it is an addition too. However chats with my brother this week have made us have a lot of unanswered questions about our aunt and her having a GI baby in 1944. I'm sure I used to be able to view birth/wedding/death certificates before buying just to check I was along the right lines. However a quick dip into GRO you don't seem to be able to do that any more. Have I miss - remembered? Are there other sites you can get certificates from or a look at? I'm still a member of Ancestry but as many of you have said they are very expensive. Any guidance is very welcome.