Baby without marriage?

I was surprised that both my children ended up getting married as I didn't think they would.
My son and his wife had a child before they wed and my daughter and her husband also had their first child together when they got married.

I was divorced when my children were 11 & 8 yrs old - so perhaps they wanted to make a better job of it for their own children !

I agree that it's better if parents have the same surname when their children start school. Wouldn't a teacher assume that Fred Bloggs's mum is Mrs Bloggs?
My daughter wants to be married but when I say it needn't cost the earth she says she would want the same (ludicrously expensive) extravaganza as her friends had.
apricot

apricot, I suspect that the last thing teachers assume is that children nowadays have the same name as their mum. Two of my GCs have their dad's name and I don't think their teachers have ever expressed surprise. I know that my unmarried DS and his partner are every bit as committed to one another as are his married brother and his wife. And they have sorted out their wills, child guardianship etc.

Putting the cart before the horse surely disqualifies one from having a celebrity style wedding. After a number of years living together a quick trip to the registrars should suffice. I was never interested in having a big do when I got married but we did all the right things and had a very special day.

I have two daughters. One was married before they had children and the other one got married when the baby was 14 months old. Both had lovely weddings and are very happy (I hope!)

I don't think it matters one bit! My daughter divorced after having both of her daughters (while she was married). The relationship had been hanging by a thread until then, but they'd had a reasonably good relationship until they got married! I'm with my partner and have been for nearly 42 years. We have one son to this relationship but have brought up my 2 daughters from my previous marriage with no real difficulty emotionally. My eldest daughter lived with her (now) husband for 11 years before marrying him about 8 years ago. She had her little girl before the wedding took place. So - no! I honestly don't see any reason to go through with marriage unless the couple themselves expressly want to. It's really no-one else's business.

My son and his fiancee are in the process of buying a house and would like to get married but she is Chinese and the full ethnic wedding is expected. Theirs is not a culture where you can ignore parental wishes, so they know they have to do it, but can't face it! From our point of view, we've told them that anything or nothing is OK with us.

I really feel for them. When it does happen it will be very hard for us, because I am shy in unknown company, and my husband is agoraphobic, and we are both out of practice in buying posh clothes....

We want what makes them happy.

My late aunt was in that position with her Spanish fiance back in the fifties. She ended the engagement rather than be subject to his parents wishes all her life. She never married, either officially or otherwise, but she had a successful career as a university lecturer. She was a good aunt to her nieces — in my case, more psychologically supportive than my mother when things got tough.

She also never explained to her family why she had broken off the engagement, but when she was in her sixties, she told me the thought of the would be mother-in-law and all his sisters having expectations of her that she didn't have of herself, or want, was what did it. Strong woman.

Parents don't own their children, even when they think they do.

I wish your son and daughter-'out-law' all the best, joan, and hope they do what they want. She is not living in a Chinese culture now, presumably, but an Australian one. Her parents need to accept this. Presumably the young couple could have a quiet registry office wedding — if married is what they want to be — without the hassle?

It is even more complicated, Baggy. She might end up getting disowned by her family. My son is a good man - he has a degree, an executive position at work, and is a captain in the army reserves. Everyone likes him - he is a cheerful, positive person. But he is not Chinse, and that is all they see/

Pity, pity, pity! Do the young lady's parents still live in China?

Somebody needs to tell them about "hybrid vigour".

No, Baggy, they live in Australia where the lass was born. I know my grandchildren will have 'hybrid vigour' - they will be beautiful and intelligent Well, I can think positive can't I?

I don't know the in-laws myself of course, but I do know they run a 'Chinese' home, speaking the language, cooking Chinese food etc.

I'm not going to worry: my son and his fiancee are strong people, and whatever happens they will be together. They will always have us on their side, and we can be pretty tough when we have to be too.

As they say in Yorkshire "There's nowt as queer as folks"

Good luck to you all, and if some cheering and 'rooting' from the UK is any use to them, please pass it on.

Joan what an awkward situation. I am surrogate mum to a lovely Chinese couple; Westernised husband from Hong Kong and modern, but culturally Chinese wife from Shanghai. When the wife first arrived in England her reference points were all Chinese, but after nearly three years in the UK she has made a considered choice to embrace British culture; she has explained that she would find this almost impossible if her parents were also living in the UK.

(We were at a hospital appointment today and I went in with the couple to see the consultant as my 'daughter' requires an operation; I was holding the baby when he asked who I was and both parents said "she's grandma"! His face was a picture as he tried to work out how such a thing could be. We didn't enlighten him. )

grannyactivist - wonderful!

Wish I'd been a fly on the wall in that consulting room, if flies are allowed in hospitals...

That's a lovely story, grannyactivist!

Update on my original post in this thread!! my daughter's partner has asked my daughter to marry him! and most romantically on holiday, with a ring all ready and everything!!
So much for her big ideals! she is thrilled that he has asked her and is already planning the wedding (which will be after the baby is born now)
I had a feeling she was protesting too much and that this is what she wanted!

Wonderful news Speldnan how exciting

What a lovely post Speldnan and a nice "Happy ever After*

thanks everyone-it really is exciting! they have had an offer accepted on a 4 bedroom house (they live in a one bed flat at the moment) so it is all happening for them at once and I am so happy for them!!! have already started looking at dresses for the wedding day!

A wedding, that should keep us all chattering away ... dresses, shoes, handbag